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View Poll Results: Which manufacturer will benefit most from Toyota's problems?
GM 5 9.26%
Ford 22 40.74%
Honda/ Acura 17 31.48%
Hyundai/ Kia 7 12.96%
Mazda 1 1.85%
Nissan 1 1.85%
Dodge/ Chrysler 0 0%
other 1 1.85%
Voters: 54. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
Old 03-06-2010, 11:20 PM
 
1,634 posts, read 3,335,620 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by car54 View Post
If Ford is still around after killing hundreds in their various fireballs over the years
Now, now, how dare you bring up an even worse scandal!

That was ancient history and not germane to folks on this board that are intent on bringing down big bad Toyota!
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Old 03-07-2010, 01:53 AM
 
1,376 posts, read 2,255,619 times
Reputation: 1439
Quote:
Originally Posted by car54 View Post
"Assuming they are still in business"...Toyota??? I think you guys are getting delirious, LOL!

If Ford is still around after killing hundreds in their various fireballs over the years, and after digging themselves into tens of billions of dollars of debt....I think it's safe to say that Toyota WILL be around in ten years!
Lest we forget that Ford was the one with the $2.7 billion profit in 2009 while Toyota is $7 billion in debt for 2009 as of Q3. The Q4 and year end totals for Toyota come out later this month. Let's wait and see how much additional debt the recalls added.
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Old 03-07-2010, 01:54 AM
 
1,376 posts, read 2,255,619 times
Reputation: 1439
Quote:
Originally Posted by deepcynic View Post
Now, now, how dare you bring up an even worse scandal!

That was ancient history and not germane to folks on this board that are intent on bringing down big bad Toyota!
Toyota is doing a damn good job of bringing itself down.
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Old 03-07-2010, 08:48 AM
 
4,711 posts, read 10,539,660 times
Reputation: 3745
Quote:
Originally Posted by mustang84 View Post
Lest we forget that Ford was the one with the $2.7 billion profit in 2009 while Toyota is $7 billion in debt for 2009 as of Q3. The Q4 and year end totals for Toyota come out later this month. Let's wait and see how much additional debt the recalls added.

Even with their current problems, there is absolutely no comparison between the financial conditions of Toyota vs. Ford. BTW, debt and losses ain't the same thing.

Also, Ford's '09 profit was not operating profit, it was the result of "special items"...debt for equity swaps, one-time cuts, etc.

Is Ford's Profit for Real?
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Old 03-07-2010, 11:21 AM
 
1,376 posts, read 2,255,619 times
Reputation: 1439
Quote:
Originally Posted by car54 View Post
Even with their current problems, there is absolutely no comparison between the financial conditions of Toyota vs. Ford. BTW, debt and losses ain't the same thing.

Also, Ford's '09 profit was not operating profit, it was the result of "special items"...debt for equity swaps, one-time cuts, etc.

Is Ford's Profit for Real?
Nice try posting a Q2 article.

Ford Posts Full Year Profit for 2009; Fourth Quarter 2009 Net Income of $868 Million;... -- DEARBORN, Mich., Jan. 28 */PRNewswire-FirstCall/ --

Quote:
Achieved positive Automotive operating-related cash flow of $3.1 billion for the fourth quarter. Full year Automotive operating-related cash outflow was $300 million, a $19.2 billion improvement over 2008
Ford Credit was also profitable
Quote:
Ford Credit fourth quarter pre-tax operating profits of $696 million, a $1.1 billion improvement from a year ago
Another indicator that Ford is doing well. Ford North America, a previous cash leech, was profitable
Quote:
Ford North America fourth quarter pre-tax operating profits of $707 million, a $2.6 billion improvement from a year ago++
Note that 2009 was a $17 billion improvement over 2008, despite 2009 being such a harsh year economically. Only $9.9 billion of that was debt-for-equity swaps.
Quote:
Full year net income of $2.7 billion, or 86 cents per share, a $17.5 billion improvement from a year ago. Pre-tax operating profits of $454 million, a $7.3 billion improvement from a year ago++

Last edited by mustang84; 03-07-2010 at 11:48 AM..
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Old 03-07-2010, 12:08 PM
 
4,711 posts, read 10,539,660 times
Reputation: 3745
Quote:
Originally Posted by mustang84 View Post
Nice try posting a Q2 article.

Ford Posts Full Year Profit for 2009; Fourth Quarter 2009 Net Income of $868 Million;... -- DEARBORN, Mich., Jan. 28 */PRNewswire-FirstCall/ --



Ford Credit was also profitable


Another indicator that Ford is doing well. Ford North America, a previous cash leech, was profitable


Note that 2009 was a $17 billion improvement over 2008, despite 2009 being such a harsh year economically. Only $9.9 billion of that was debt-for-equity swaps.

Don't get me wrong, I wish Ford all the luck in the world. I personally would never buy another one after my F-150 fiasco...but I'd still like to see them do well. Heck, I inherited a bunch of Ford stock years ago, and I wouldn't mind seeing it's value return to somewhere near what it was.

But to say Ford's financial condition is, or soon will be, better than Toyota's is absurd. BTW, I went to my Toyota dealer for a gallon of coolant yesterday (the first nice Saturday in ages) and noticed that the showroom had some pretty decent traffic. So, don't y'all hold your breath waiting for Toyota's demise...people are still buying them around here!
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Old 03-07-2010, 12:22 PM
 
Location: Michigan--good on the rocks
2,544 posts, read 3,456,451 times
Reputation: 1932
I would be very surprised if this brought about Toyota's demise. All they really need to do is fess up that they don't really know what the problem is, and start being a little less arrogant with their customers (deny and blame the victim). They build and have built good cars, it's just that this drive-by-wire thing is probably impractical for cars. The cost of having all the backup systems (like airplanes have) just makes it cost prohibitive. Toyota will get through this, and perhaps they'll even be a stronger company for it. I am not a fan in particular, just trying to keep a realistic perspective.
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Old 03-07-2010, 01:54 PM
 
Location: Arctic Tundra, MA
3,632 posts, read 8,314,029 times
Reputation: 1723
They, all automakers, should do away with any drive by wire throttle... I always thought it was a bad idea... Lets stick with what works, it's worked for 100 years now..
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Old 03-08-2010, 08:24 AM
 
Location: NE PA
7,936 posts, read 13,555,951 times
Reputation: 4370
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisA70 View Post
So why did my 88k mile 87 Mustang blow a head gasket, and my japanese Civic went to 237K(sold it to buy a truck), and My SAAB got to 322K(rusted out, but ran new)? Most of the american cars I owned fell apart and blew up or lost transmissions just past 100-125K, with exception of my jeep. And I am anal about car care.... Maybe the newer Fords are better, GM still has crappy reliability. Take a Ford any day. But for now I will stick with my 15 year old Honda with 71K.... i figure I have 230K to go on this one.
I agree. My old 88 Buick Century with 90k on it was ready for the junkyard, always something going wrong....these days I have a 01 Honda Accord with 130k on it that runs as good as the day it was new and has needed nothing but regular maintenance and wear and tear. I plan on driving it for at least another 3 years or longer....although I'm sure it would last longer.
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Old 03-08-2010, 01:26 PM
 
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
9,592 posts, read 20,495,960 times
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I think Ford's most recent profits are legit. They have finally learned how the Japanese brands outsold them on their own soil and have began focusing on the quality of their vehicles (esp small cars) and have stop taking crap from the factory and dealership unions. I think Ford is ready to flourish in the coming decades. I do think GM and Chrysler are still headed towards the crapper.
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