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Old 09-24-2011, 07:08 AM
 
6,897 posts, read 7,098,512 times
Reputation: 21270

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Quote:
Whilst I believe the TSA is made up of human beings and is therefore full of fallible creatures that can and do make mistakes fairly regularly and seems to be staffed with a lot of people who don't give a crap, I also think that Americans really don't have a clue when it comes to airport security. Even after all these years. When I first moved here I couldn't believe the utter lack of security at any airport in this country. I think you guys are very very spoiled and whilst I don't enjoy the scanners or the patdowns or taking off my shoes, jacket, belt, etc, until they implement the model El Al uses for their flights, I will submit to those restrictions any day over running the risk of some lunatic getting on my plane.

I think you and others miss the big picture about TSA and the Department of Homeland Security.

The day is rapidly approaching in this country when choices, stark choices, are going to have to be made with respect to our budget. We can't keep spending the way we have and whether republicans or democrats are in office its going to be the same thing. The issues are going to be: 1. Do we cut Medicare by 20% or do we cut out other wasteful and inefficient spending?

I think the very marginal value that exists from the type of intensive screening of passengers that TSA conducts is not worth it. It is inefficient to the extreme. I suggest we go back to conducting security at airports the way did prior to September 11, 2001. TSA's present budget is approximately $10 billion.

Most people are choosing to see this problem merely in terms of personal convenience, privacy, or in other selfish ways. I'm saying with Medicare, Medicaid, student loans, and other critical government programs on the chopping block that is difficult for me to justify the cost and expense of this level of airline security. If forced to choose, I'll pick these programs over the security that TSA offers the traveling public.

In the not-very-distant past, airline crashes and disasters were not uncommon. Ordinarily, we'd see one airliner a year a crash, usually killing everyone on board. That risk was accepted by society and the traveling public as a sort of "price" that had to be paid in exchange for having rapid transportation through the country and our world. If we lighten up security its not impossible that at some point terrorists might bomb an airliner. This may sound harsh, but its a price that I think we should be willing to pay to save $10 billion a year.

That's the way this needs to be looked at. We can't everything we want. At least not anymore. I'm so sick of people who keeping trying to justify any possible intrusive security measure in terms of its marginal ability to prevent a terrorist attack that I want to vomit.
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Old 11-22-2011, 10:32 PM
 
Location: Norfolk
1,277 posts, read 1,624,155 times
Reputation: 3845
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
I think you and others miss the big picture about TSA and the Department of Homeland Security.

The day is rapidly approaching in this country when choices, stark choices, are going to have to be made with respect to our budget. We can't keep spending the way we have and whether republicans or democrats are in office its going to be the same thing. The issues are going to be: 1. Do we cut Medicare by 20% or do we cut out other wasteful and inefficient spending?

I think the very marginal value that exists from the type of intensive screening of passengers that TSA conducts is not worth it. It is inefficient to the extreme. I suggest we go back to conducting security at airports the way did prior to September 11, 2001. TSA's present budget is approximately $10 billion.
THANK-you.

And the worst of it is, this is NOT true security. It is security THEATER. It is a show. The TSA's failure rate in 2010 was so abysmal, and so horrific, that they wouldn't even release the results to the public.

Last time they *DID* release those numbers, they were well north of 70%. That's incredible. So if 10 people with weapons pass through security, that stellar bunch at the TSA will catch THREE of them.

Swell.

So we're throwing $10 billion into a hole for giggles and grins, because - the facts tell us - having these "security specialists" dressed up in snazzy blue outfits at the airports it is not doing *anything* to enhance our safety in the skies.

And if you factor in the TRUE cost of the TSA, it's probably much worse than $10 billion. How many people have stopped flying because of this TSA's molestation of all passengers? How many people are boarding a train, or taking the family Truxter or just giving up on that holiday vacation altogether?

And if you think the best way to avoid the TSA is to stop flying, I'm afraid you're wrong about that, too. It's a malignant agency that is spreading its tentacles throughout our country's transportation system.

Pictured below: While I waited to board my flight from Norfolk to Chicago, I witnessed FIVE TSA lackeys standing around doing nothing for a period of time exceeding 45 minutes.



Rose Thornton
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Old 11-23-2011, 09:03 AM
 
4,248 posts, read 9,378,992 times
Reputation: 3097
Why don't the carriers pay for this since we're getting on their planes? Sure it'll be more expensive to fly but big deal. Flying isn't a right.
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Old 11-24-2011, 06:21 AM
 
Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
38,770 posts, read 17,809,323 times
Reputation: 35657
Quote:
Originally Posted by RosemaryT View Post

And if you think the best way to avoid the TSA is to stop flying, I'm afraid you're wrong about that, too. It's a malignant agency that is spreading its tentacles throughout our country's transportation system.
I already spotted TSA a while back checking train passengers bound for LA Union Station from a small commuter rail station in Norwalk, CA.
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Old 12-13-2011, 07:28 AM
 
Location: Maryland
192 posts, read 298,041 times
Reputation: 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by RosemaryT View Post
THANK-you.

And the worst of it is, this is NOT true security. It is security THEATER. It is a show. The TSA's failure rate in 2010 was so abysmal, and so horrific, that they wouldn't even release the results to the public.

taking the family Truxter or just giving up on that holiday vacation altogether?

And if you think the best way to avoid the TSA is to stop flying, I'm afraid you're wrong about that, too. It's a malignant agency that is spreading its tentacles throughout our country's transportation system.



Rose Thornton

It's more than just the illusion of security. It's about breaking your will and getting you use to the idea of a government enforcer violating your body, privacy, and training you to submit. TSA has already been deployed in bus terminals and highways, next they will be in the malls and grocery stores.



The Barr Code

Mission Creep at TSA Accelerates


Like TSA? You'll Love VIPR! - James Fallows - National - The Atlantic

The laws have already been passed to label virtually anyone the government wants a 'terrorist'. It was the same in 1930s Germany as well, they passed laws making their illegal activity 'legal'.

Once you ignore the Bill of Rights and Constitution ANYTHING goes. That means up to an including secret arrests, torture, and execution of American citizens.

Obama has already said he has the power to kill whoever he wants, whenever he wants.



Obama lawyers: Citizens targeted if at war with US
(http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_TARGETED_KILLING?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE= DEFAULT&CTIME=2011-12-01-10-42-54 - broken link)

Quote:
Section 802 of the USA PATRIOT Act (Pub. L. No. 107-52) expanded the definition of terrorism to cover ""domestic,"" as opposed to international, terrorism. A person engages in domestic terrorism if they do an act ""dangerous to human life"" that is a violation of the criminal laws of a state or the United States
So anyone who violates a criminal state law could potentially be labeled a 'terrorist'. Of course once you are labeled a terrorist you no longer have rights.
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Old 03-31-2014, 10:29 PM
 
Location: Norfolk
1,277 posts, read 1,624,155 times
Reputation: 3845
Quote:
Originally Posted by sephiro499 View Post
It's more than just the illusion of security. It's about breaking your will and getting you use to the idea of a government enforcer violating your body, privacy, and training you to submit. TSA has already been deployed in bus terminals and highways, next they will be in the malls and grocery stores.
It's been three years, and this very thing is happening now. The TSA is spreading its tentacles to highways and train stations.

Scary stuff.
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Old 04-01-2014, 08:13 AM
 
Location: Sudbury, ON, Canada
3,401 posts, read 3,610,126 times
Reputation: 4362
I don't care what anyone says about the backscatter machines and their minimal doses. There is NO safe threshold for ionizing radiation and any amount is suspect to cause a mutation that may manifest to something later on in life. It's not debatable whether that's a theory or not - millions of people fly and certainly some people are going to get cancer from these machines. Although your individual risks are small, still, it's there and it's complete bulls*t that flying has come to this. Do not come to me with this 'well it's not even certain that x-rays contribute to cancers' because that's outdated rubbish and no respectable specialist would ever agree.

I have opted out of every single backscatter machine situation I have almost wound up in. I have never had a situation nearly as embarrassing as OP's, but it's not fun when everyone looks at you, and they swab you at the end. I ultimately don't care though. I guess as a male the pat-down is far less daunting, but I really do feel bad for you OP. You should file a complaint if you haven't already. It's not, or it should not, be the work of the TSA to bend you past your right to refuse something potentially unsafe. Anything less than that is unacceptable.
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Old 04-01-2014, 09:11 AM
 
5,574 posts, read 4,699,701 times
Reputation: 16376
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse44 View Post
I don't care what anyone says about the backscatter machines and their minimal doses. There is NO safe threshold for ionizing radiation and any amount is suspect to cause a mutation that may manifest to something later on in life. It's not debatable whether that's a theory or not - millions of people fly and certainly some people are going to get cancer from these machines. Although your individual risks are small, still, it's there and it's complete bulls*t that flying has come to this. Do not come to me with this 'well it's not even certain that x-rays contribute to cancers' because that's outdated rubbish and no respectable specialist would ever agree.

I have opted out of every single backscatter machine situation I have almost wound up in. I have never had a situation nearly as embarrassing as OP's, but it's not fun when everyone looks at you, and they swab you at the end. I ultimately don't care though. I guess as a male the pat-down is far less daunting, but I really do feel bad for you OP. You should file a complaint if you haven't already. It's not, or it should not, be the work of the TSA to bend you past your right to refuse something potentially unsafe. Anything less than that is unacceptable.
TSA isn't using backscatter anymore, and the post is 3-1/2 years old. Filing a complaint now would be pointless.
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Old 04-01-2014, 09:17 AM
 
Location: Sudbury, ON, Canada
3,401 posts, read 3,610,126 times
Reputation: 4362
Oh whoops. I did not see the age of this thread.

And the TSA no longer use the machines? I thought I saw some only a few months ago. How recent was this? If it's true - that's fantastic.
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Old 04-01-2014, 09:46 AM
 
5,574 posts, read 4,699,701 times
Reputation: 16376
Backscatter machines were done away with May-ish 2013.
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