Are Europeans just stingy?? (regulations, best, Greece, Spain)

[Miaiam]

Originally Posted by PA2UK

Of course a crew member is going to hope for the biggest tip possible - that doesn't necessarily mean they deserve it. They are already getting paid for their work and if they feel they are getting underpaid, they should find a better paying job, not rely on tips to make up the difference. A tip is a bonus, not an expectation.

I have no problem tipping, but I don't want to feel pushed to do it at all.
If the workers do a good job and don't give me looks when I am about to pay the bill, I will tip for sure. I went to a casual restaurant once and the waiter was the kindest young man, so I gladly gave him a generous tip. I have stayed in hotels which had extremely kind employees and I gladly tipped them as well.

But if the service is not good or if I feel pushed to do it, sorry, but I just won't tip. It is unfortunate that some people just find it easier to say "you are stingy!" before they listen to any kind of reasoning.

I agree that tipping should be a special "thank you" for exceptional service.

Another thing I find as important as tipping: I will easily complain about bad service, but will always compliment good service to a manager or whoever is in charge. This sometimes is worth a promotion or a raise in salary, which will sure last longer than my tip.

[plain and simple]

Originally Posted by PA2UK

Of course a crew member is going to hope for the biggest tip possible - that doesn't necessarily mean they deserve it. They are already getting paid for their work and if they feel they are getting underpaid, they should find a better paying job, not rely on tips to make up the difference. A tip is a bonus, not an expectation.

Ah, but the one fact you're forgetting is that, at least in America, is that there are particular fields in the service industry where tipping is customary. I'm not talking about the places that have begun to put out TIP jars on their own, like fast food joints and coffee houses.

In America, when you go to a restaurant, you tip. The only reason you wouldn't was if the SERVICE was unacceptable. Even then I'm not talking about a snotty, demanding customer's idea of unacceptable because those types of self-entitled people are the scourge of society. If the service is so bad that you need to talk to the manager about the server's attitude or complete lack of attention, THEN you don't tip. Nobody likes it, but waiters are paid pitifully and tips are automatically factored in as part of their wage.

The cruise industry is one of those industries like restaurants. It's explained in their welcome packets that you receive before the cruise. I'm not saying it's right or fair, I'm just saying that that's the way it is. Tipping on a cruise is normal.

If you're not from America, think of it this way... how does it make you feel when you see Americans come to your country and not behave appropriately according to what's customary? Don't tell me you don't think it's rude and that you don't go off on another rant about those damn Americans. I've traveled and lived all over the world and have seen and heard it all.

[PA2UK]

Originally Posted by plain and simple

Ah, but the one fact you're forgetting is that, at least in America, is that there are particular fields in the service industry where tipping is customary.

Which is exactly what bothers me about it. It's so expectant - I've already paid for the service I received. Why am I expected to pay more unless I felt the service was exceptional? You see, everyone is pointing out how different cultures have different views on tipping but no one can answer me that question. No one can give me a rational, logical reason WHY I'm being expected to pay extra for something I thought was acceptable but average. The answer is essentially "because that's the way it is". Well, that's not a good enough reason. I love the US, I miss it... but that doesn't mean I have to agree with societies increasingly outrageous ideas on tipping.

If you're not from America,

I am actually American and have felt this way about tipping since long before I came to the UK. I mentioned this in my first post (the post you quoted was my second). You don't have to be from another country to realize how presumptuous the idea of an expected or "customary" tip is.

[burgler09]

One thing that really bothers me is the convienence people like to use on their "accepting cultures" idea. Europeans love to complain that Americans are rude , press our views and opinions, yet they come to USA and complain about tipping. Its our way of life and how things go here, so accept it and go along with it, don't complain because it isn't how you have it in your home country.

Waiters and waitresses are paid about 2.65 an hour. Tips are part of their wage, and if tipping wasn't expected, your meal would actually end up being a lot more expensive because the restaurant would end up paying more for their salary. Sometimes you people need to see the hypocrisy in your statements.

[PA2UK]

Originally Posted by burgler09

Waiters and waitresses are paid about 2.65 an hour. Tips are part of their wage, and if tipping wasn't expected, your meal would actually end up being a lot more expensive because the restaurant would end up paying more for their salary.

Which would be fine by me - I said in my first post that the cost for service should be built into the initial price. Plenty of restaurants and servers manage it in other countries where tipping isn't the norm so it's not like it's impossible.

[burgler09]

Originally Posted by PA2UK

Which would be fine by me - I said in my first post that the cost for service should be built into the initial price. Plenty of restaurants and servers manage it in other countries where tipping isn't the norm so it's not like it's impossible.

But it is a certain way here, and the people who complain about it and don't comply are just as pathetic as the "jerk americans" who do as they please.

[annerk]

Originally Posted by plain and simple

There's a huge difference between a $600 cruise and a $40,000 cruise.

When we've taken a day cruise, we've taken 10% of the cost and divided it between the two crew members on the boat. So each got $30 or so.

[Mooseketeer]

I always tip when in the US ( never 20% more like 15 % which I think is already outrageous) because I feel there is some kind of emotional blackmail to do so. Ie : I do it at "gunpoint" so to speak because it is what expected. I am not cheap. I would much prefer for prices to be more in the US but for employees to be paid a living wage.

There is not so much a culture of tipping in Europe because people are paid a living wage and do not have to rely on the charity of others to survive. Most Europeans view tipping as charity. I want employees to be paid a wage that anyone can live on. And that falls on the employer. I also resent the fact that tipping is expected for jobs in the hospitality industry but that other very poorly paid jobs in the US somehow do not expect tips. I don't remember cashiers or janitors asking me for tips....

Tipping is just an excuse for exploiting employees and treating them like crap. Being accused of being cheap when I see it as a political and social principle does rankle. And I would like to add that eating out is NOT cheaper in the US when you have added the expected bloody 20% tip ! And expected it is no matter how bad the service or food it seems which by definition does make it charity nothing else.

So I pay the tip, I hate it and the scandal of underpaid exploited staff goes on. I would be lobbying for a decent living wage if I lived in the US. And perfectly happy to see my prices rise up by 20% if that is what it took. So I certainly do not see how I can be considered cheap. I am more than happy to pay higher taxes so that EVERYONE has access to universal healthcare and other universal social services. That is how cheap I am.

Americans seem to assuage their conscience of a socially empoverished system by accepting tipping when the solution would be for EVERYONE who works to have a job which pays a decent wage. NOBODY should have to rely on CHARITY. That to me is a scandal and an absolute disgrace.

Tipping to me is about exceptional service. I prefer my prices to be inclusive of service. Blackmail does not work for me. I find it demeaning to the staff.



And also I would prefer for the prices in the US to have taxes added in the price rather than the usual rigmarole of trying to work out how much something actually is. If you are somehow excluded from paying those taxes then produce your proof of entitlement at the till . I have yet to see ONE person who did not have to pay those taxes ( I lived in the US for 3 years as well as visiting every year ) so why on earth give you one price on the shelf and another at the till ?????

If Europeans were so tight they would be moaning about taxes more than Americans... And they don't. It seems to me Americans are the cheapskate thinking that wanting free healthcare for all, free education, free social services, paid vacation , maternity leave etc... is stealing from them. And so many Americans really do seem to resent the idea that they might be extending a "kindness" as the previous post puts it to other who need it more. I personally have no issue with that kind of "kindness". I call it being part of a society and beneficial for all. I see that as less selfish than EXPECTING tips ( ie they are not at all discretionary) because so many refuse to adhere to a decent social system where nobody who does a job is not on a "paid" position and has to rely on charity.

So yes I do play the bloody tips and I resent it. Not the money, the principle. Just add it to the bill. Period.

[chrisuk]

I'm British and when in the US i leave 15-20% for meals, $1 per round for drinks (not per drink) and 10-15% for a cab. When i'm at home i'll just leave a few £ which often works out about the 10% mark, but only for exceptional service.

It's not expected in the UK or in Europe, but is appreciated. Even in the US where its 'expected' you usually get a "Thanks alot its much appreciated" etc etc i've never come across an expectant attitude. The only time ive not left a tip in the US is to a waitress in the bar at Cincinnati airport who was very rude. I asked her how much it was when we'd finished the drinks/food and gave her the exact change and smiled - she got the message.

[PA2UK]

Originally Posted by burgler09

But it is a certain way here, and the people who complain about it and don't comply are just as pathetic as the "jerk americans" who do as they please.

I never said I don't comply - I'm basically forced to by society... but that doesn't mean I'm not entitled to my opinion.