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Old 06-29-2011, 05:49 PM
 
12,365 posts, read 18,459,289 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PacificFlights View Post
because terrorist will use these exceptions for their own benefit.
You are absolutely incorrect. This is the problem - our security controls are reactive - checking shoes when there is a shoe bomber, checking liquids when there is a chemical bomb. That approach is ineffective.
Our security system should be proactive - anticipating the terrorist.
Is searching grandma or the 7 year old child effective? No - it's all show, smoke and mirrors. The illusion of security is there. The reality is not.
It's been discussed before - the israeli method of flight security control works. The only problem is we don't have the skill sets in place in TSA to implement it, and because of the danger of being "politically incorrect". So instead we pick the totally random, instead of selected and screened, searches.
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Old 06-29-2011, 06:25 PM
 
4,919 posts, read 19,896,013 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
The reality is not.
It's been discussed before - the israeli method of flight security control works. The only problem is we don't have the skill sets in place in TSA to implement it, and because of the danger of being "politically incorrect". So instead we pick the totally random, instead of selected and screened, searches.
if you ever get a chance to speak with Israeli security they will tell you their methods will NEVER work in the USA.
1. they handle less passnegers a year for all flights than some airports alone handle a year.
2. You don;t have the same liberties when it comes to security as you do in the USA.
3. Their airport security measures are not just at the airport, it's a nationwide thing that is constantly in motion.
4. They use methods that are more invasive just that they don;t have to tell anyone and their press doesn;t report anything negative
5. You do not have the same rights in Isreal when it comes to airport security as you do int he USA thats why you never hear much about lawsuits over their security forces actions.
6. Their citizens DEMAND the security and EXPECT the security, it's not an incovinience to them no matter how bad.
and the last thing he mentioned was 7. in their country airport security is a key element of flying where in the USA it's all about price and convinience.
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Old 06-29-2011, 06:55 PM
 
26,590 posts, read 54,671,366 times
Reputation: 13020
Quote:
Originally Posted by PacificFlights View Post
i'm a crew member on a charter heavy lift cargo aircraft. Wish i could fly this beast.

One third of my operations is pre arrival things which means I have to fly on regualr commerical passneger flight to met the sircraft or head to the location begfore arrivals. In those cases, my crew status isn;t something that gets me much of any favorable treatment with security. Since I;m a passenger, i expect that my flight will be safe so i expect that they will be doing everything to provide my safety. Maybe I;m just a little more forgiving because I would rather be felt up by security than felt up by a mortician.
Oh please. At every airport I fly in and out of, crew have separate lines and are given a cursory glance at best, even when they are non-reving or deadheading.

Quote:
Nobody wants these intrusions but we all know if something goes wrong, everyone would be asking why weren;t they more diligent in their efforts. People complain about granny being searched but I bet if granny had a bomb and used it, their kin would be complaining even louder calling for an investigatuion as to why grannies underwear wasn;t searched.
I disagree. You need to find a line between Gestapo tactics and public security, and in my opinion the United States government has allowed the TSA to cross the line, repeatedly and without accountability.
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Old 06-29-2011, 08:22 PM
 
Location: Airports all over the world
6,168 posts, read 6,336,573 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PacificFlights View Post
i'm a crew member on a charter heavy lift cargo aircraft. Wish i could fly this beast.

One third of my operations is pre arrival things which means I have to fly on regualr commerical passneger flight to met the sircraft or head to the location begfore arrivals. In those cases, my crew status isn;t something that gets me much of any favorable treatment with security.
Quote:
Originally Posted by annerk View Post
Oh please. At every airport I fly in and out of, crew have separate lines and are given a cursory glance at best, even when they are non-reving or deadheading.
Not all crew members are pilots or flight attendents. There are those of us that do not have the luxury of the "cursory glance at best". I get poked, prodded, and nuked on a regular basis.
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Old 06-29-2011, 09:05 PM
 
Location: 112 Ocean Avenue
5,706 posts, read 8,140,050 times
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Even in death, Osama bin Laden is still winning -- in more ways than one.
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Old 06-30-2011, 06:50 AM
 
26,590 posts, read 54,671,366 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskan Mutt View Post
Not all crew members are pilots or flight attendents. There are those of us that do not have the luxury of the "cursory glance at best". I get poked, prodded, and nuked on a regular basis.
At Orlando even the people who sweep the floors only have to go through a metal detector and have their backpack scanned. And they are allowed to bring liquids and such through as well. I've never seen a TSA agent screened when they've gone from the open area to the sterile concourse. Why should a pilot have to be screened and a TSA agent not? See my problem with our system?
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Old 06-30-2011, 06:51 AM
 
26,590 posts, read 54,671,366 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedJacket View Post
Even in death, Osama bin Laden is still winning -- in more ways than one.
Exactly.

And in all seriousness, the whole point of "terror" ism is to attack where it's least expected.
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Old 06-30-2011, 06:59 AM
 
Location: Earth
24,639 posts, read 24,864,112 times
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TSA tries to take adult diaper off 95 yr old women

Duplicate thread.
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Old 06-30-2011, 07:00 AM
 
9,235 posts, read 9,305,514 times
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In 2009, my wife and I completed a trip to New Zealand. In the country of New Zealand, we took approximately three intercity airplane flights. The people of New Zealand are not worried about terrorists on an airplane and there is literally no security that one need pass through. You literally enter the airport, show your ticket to an agent, and hop on the airplane.

I'm not naive enough to think that we could do the same thing here in the USA. That being said, 9/11 happened ten years ago, Osama Bin Laden is dead, Al Quaeda is on the ropes, and the budget for TSA is still over $40 billion a year.

What so many people here constantly refuse to do is to make some effort to balance competing interests and arrive at a reasonable medium. Airline travel will never be 100% safe anymore than automobile travel will be 100% safe. I remember when airline disasters occurred quite routinely and it was common for one or two planes to crash every year. People simply accepted that was a risk of travel and moved on. Security and safety while traveling is an interest the public has Another competing interest is ease of travel. When thousands of people everyday have to take off their shoes in an airport because one person, one time attempted unsuccessfully to bomb an airliner with something in his shoe, I submit the pendulum has swung too far in the interests of security.

Finally, please grasp that none of this intense security we go through is for free. The $40 billion annual budget for TSA is only a small part of it. If professional people and executives spend one half hour per leg of a trip going through security and than one half an hour returning through security on daily roundtrips, the economic loss from this alone can be calculated in millions of dollars per day. This cost too must be considered when we ask if the level of security we impose on the traveling public is worth it. I fly on business trips and I would be willing to accept some level of increased risk in exchange for not worrying about having items confiscated by TSA, being subjected to pat down searches because they said I "turned" while inside the scanning device, and being able to get through the airport quicker.

Seriously, if this country is going to put important programs like Medicare and Medicaid on the chopping block because of budget woes than TSA should be there too. Its a question of prioritization and people who believe that airtight security has to take place while this country dismantles its whole social safety net don't think very rationally.
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Old 06-30-2011, 07:03 AM
 
26,590 posts, read 54,671,366 times
Reputation: 13020
One other TSA complaint. Had them tell me I had to remove my medical alert bracelet before entering the scanner. Are they for real? It's a small, loose bracelet that any moron could see for exactly what it is and never construe as anything sinister. I never take it off, doing so would kind of defeat the purpose of wearing it, wouldn't it?
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