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Old 06-30-2011, 11:43 AM
 
253 posts, read 164,882 times
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Aren't you required to take off all metal before passing thru security? I thought that's how it's always been.
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Old 06-30-2011, 11:59 AM
 
26,590 posts, read 54,571,346 times
Reputation: 13019
Quote:
Originally Posted by tippinturtle View Post
Aren't you required to take off all metal before passing thru security? I thought that's how it's always been.
No. They suggest that you take off or avoid wearing any items with enough metal to set off the detectors. Most medical alert bracelets are small, lightweight, and very loose around the wrist (they usually have info engraved on both sides so you want EMS/first responders to be able to easily them flip over to read) and don't contain enough metal to set off any detector. Oddly the TSA agent didn't mention the earrings I was wearing, just the bracelet.

It's only happened once, every other TSA agent has the common sense to understand what it is and why removing it would be a stupid idea. One wanted to see it and immediately said, "Oh, you're fine" after I pulled up my sleeve and another wanted to put their finger under the solid flat part, whatever. The rest don't even give it a second glance.

But again, that illustrates my problem with the TSA. Many alter the rules to fit their own personal agenda, many lack a level of basic common sense, overall they are poorly trained and supervised, and more than a few are abusive and should not be working in jobs where they interact with the public.
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Old 06-30-2011, 12:14 PM
 
Location: Striving for Avalon
1,424 posts, read 2,091,262 times
Reputation: 3348
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissNM View Post
Sadly, I have to agree with this. People can be exploited, even the family of a 95 year old white woman with the disposition of Betty White.

These matters should be handled with modesty and tact. If only they could just teach TSA workers these skills.
This fear is irrational in actual terrorism studies. Profiling is more nuanced than white=good and brown=bad. The Israelis successfully profile, because they know that Jakob the Hassidim in his black frock armed with dual US/Israeli passport, with an extensive travel record, a ticket booked in advance via credit card, tax returns etc etc poses little threat. And no, the evil terrorists will not follow the Mainstream Media approach and use grandma.

Here's a better profile:
Mrs. Grandma
Age: 78
Sex: F
Ethnicity: White
Birthplace: Brooklyn, NY
Parents: Immigrants from (insert western Euro country here)
Marital Status: Married, 55 years
Spouse: Mr. Grandpa
Children: 3
Avg flights per year: 4
Most common destination: West Palm Beach International, West Palm Beach, FL
Last trip abroad: 2002
Destination(s) visited: Ireland
Visits to countries of interest: No
Flight date: June 15, 2011
Ticket booked: March 1
Payment details: Debit card, Bank of America

Mr Hussein
Age: 23
Sex: M
Ethnicity: Arabic/Middle Eastern
Birthplace: Sana'a, Republic of Yemen
Immigration Status: Student Visa w/ extension
Marital Status: Single
Children: 0
Avg flights per year: 8
Most common destination: Sana'a Intl Airport, Sana'a, Yemen
Last trip Abroad: 2011
Destination(s) visited last trip: Yemen, Qatar, Saudi Arabia
Visits to countries of interest: Yes
Flight date: June 15, 2011
Ticket Booked: June 10
Payment details: Prepaid card, Travelex.
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Old 07-01-2011, 07:53 AM
 
12,265 posts, read 18,393,933 times
Reputation: 19088
Quote:
Originally Posted by PacificFlights View Post
if you ever get a chance to speak with Israeli security they will tell you their methods will NEVER work in the USA.
1. they handle less passnegers a year for all flights than some airports alone handle a year.
2. You don;t have the same liberties when it comes to security as you do in the USA.
3. Their airport security measures are not just at the airport, it's a nationwide thing that is constantly in motion.
4. They use methods that are more invasive just that they don;t have to tell anyone and their press doesn;t report anything negative
5. You do not have the same rights in Isreal when it comes to airport security as you do int he USA thats why you never hear much about lawsuits over their security forces actions.
6. Their citizens DEMAND the security and EXPECT the security, it's not an incovinience to them no matter how bad.
and the last thing he mentioned was 7. in their country airport security is a key element of flying where in the USA it's all about price and convinience.
The issue about "less passengers" is irrelevant. We have 300 airports doing relatively the same thing already. It has no bearing on weather it can be put into effect or not. It can, and it has, just in a different innefective method.

For the rest - you are thinking I said to emulate EXACTLY what Israel does. That is not what I said - simply bring over those elements that work. I am not saying to emulate the IDF and subject all males and females between 18 and 30 to the draft. Isreal needs that, we don't. So lets stop talking in absolutes. It's not helping your argument.

One thing that works is stratified or selective sampling, rather than random samples. It's a statistical problem, a math problem, at it's heart - and Israel has solved it. Yes that means identifying and classifying high risk groups. It won't work not because of our legal system, not because of our military system, not because of our law enforecement system, but because of flaws in our political system. We have a system that will sacrifice the liberty and comfort of many to preserve the liberty and comfort of the few.
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Old 07-02-2011, 05:46 PM
 
18,852 posts, read 31,698,893 times
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I have been personally picked for higher scrutiny, because I frequently fly one way. It is very frustrating...right, I am quite a "threat"..government worker, female, mid 40's, usually carrying a kid.
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Old 07-03-2011, 07:01 AM
 
26,590 posts, read 54,571,346 times
Reputation: 13019
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasper12 View Post
I have been personally picked for higher scrutiny, because I frequently fly one way. It is very frustrating...right, I am quite a "threat"..government worker, female, mid 40's, usually carrying a kid.
And if they'd get all this into a database so they could see you have a long history of doing this... Nah, that would be too easy.
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Old 07-03-2011, 07:11 AM
 
Location: NYPD"s 30th Precinct
2,445 posts, read 4,431,735 times
Reputation: 2467
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
Our security system should be proactive - anticipating the terrorist. Is searching grandma or the 7 year old child effective? No - it's all show, smoke and mirrors.
(I posted this in another thread, but it's just as valid here)

On the surface I'd agree with you, however there have been cases of people sneaking items to other unsuspecting people, assuming they won't get searched.

One case that jumps to mind was a six year old boy who was caught at a screening checkpoint with a gun inside a teddy bear. Apparently a stranger gave the boy the bear prior to security. Most likely the person was watching to see if the kid was caught, and if not was planning on taking it back post security.
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Old 07-03-2011, 07:44 AM
 
26,590 posts, read 54,571,346 times
Reputation: 13019
Quote:
Originally Posted by Febtober View Post
(I posted this in another thread, but it's just as valid here)

On the surface I'd agree with you, however there have been cases of people sneaking items to other unsuspecting people, assuming they won't get searched.

One case that jumps to mind was a six year old boy who was caught at a screening checkpoint with a gun inside a teddy bear. Apparently a stranger gave the boy the bear prior to security. Most likely the person was watching to see if the kid was caught, and if not was planning on taking it back post security.
That would (and was) easily found in the metal detector/x-ray. No need to molest the kid.

And seriously, what moron would allow their kid to accept a teddy bear (or anything) from a stranger?
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Old 07-03-2011, 02:38 PM
 
Location: NYPD"s 30th Precinct
2,445 posts, read 4,431,735 times
Reputation: 2467
Quote:
Originally Posted by annerk View Post
That would (and was) easily found in the metal detector/x-ray. No need to molest the kid.

And seriously, what moron would allow their kid to accept a teddy bear (or anything) from a stranger?
Sure for a gun an x-ray is great, but what's stopping it from being a block of plastic explosives?

And you'd be surprised. Especially if it's a female approaching a kid, asking if they're looking forward to their first flight, where they're going, etc.... parents may think it's an innocent gift.
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Old 07-03-2011, 03:04 PM
 
Location: Out West
22,707 posts, read 16,808,575 times
Reputation: 26285
Quote:
Originally Posted by papafox View Post
I don't even know what to say to this NONSENSE. Our founding fathers are spinning in they're graves reading your posts. God help this country with sheeple like you!

I am FAR more likely to be killed choking on food or crossing the street than by a terrorist on a plane. If I'm the unlucky one who happens to be on a flight that is brought down by these thugs, I go down fighting (eg United Flight 93) and if I'm killed.......well then my time on this earth is up!!

To quote Benjamin Franklin "When you give up liberty for security, you get NEITHER"

Think about that..........

All we need to do is look to Isreal for the proper model of effective security.

This is why I am sooo glad I got my private pilot certificate and can fly myself almost anywhere except overseas!!
Agreed. And when someone feels that it's ok to submit to a strip search just to "be safe", totally altering our way of life, the terrorists have already won.

No, sorry, I will not accept strip searches for everyone. We know who we should be profiling but too many want to be politically correct.
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