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Old 07-29-2011, 05:37 PM
 
Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
38,854 posts, read 20,164,866 times
Reputation: 35902

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Quote:
Originally Posted by annerk View Post
Like I asked you earlier, how many times have you actually ahd a FA be rude--as opposed to what you deemed to not be perky enough for your tastes.

I don't expect perky. I just want cordial. I fly a lot and have encountered only a handful of truly nasty FA's who shouldn't have had a public facing job.
There were a few cases I've encountered including the infamous one on my first-class flight on American Eagle. Unfortunately, my seat was located near where she perched her surly self and did not make for a pleasant flight. I don't need perky, just don't act as if I'm an inconvenience to you.
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Old 07-29-2011, 05:40 PM
 
Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
38,854 posts, read 20,164,866 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by annerk View Post
Find the flights there and then book direct. That's what I do with car rentals--same idea.
I'll try that idea ... Thanks.
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Old 07-29-2011, 05:44 PM
 
26,590 posts, read 54,590,084 times
Reputation: 13019
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chatteress View Post
There were a few cases I've encountered including the infamous one on my first-class flight on American Eagle. Unfortunately, my seat was located near where she perched her surly self and did not make for a pleasant flight. I don't need perky, just don't act as if I'm an inconvenience to you.
Maybe I should rephrase--what percentage of the FA's have you encountered that were rude or surly?

You figure there are between two and six FA's on any given flight, that's an average of four FA's per flight you encounter. Let's say you only fly once a year, that's two flights r/t minimum. So that's eight FA's per trip--if not more. Multiply that times twthe past 10 years, that's 80 FA's. You said "A few" which typically means three. That means that at the most, 3.75% of the FA's you've met over the past decade have been rude. A pretty small number in the scheme of things.
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Old 07-29-2011, 06:03 PM
 
8,266 posts, read 10,707,875 times
Reputation: 4769
Quote:
Originally Posted by annerk View Post
I disagree. Bring your own. You don't have to buy at the airport. I often grab something from a favorite deli when I'm traveling to eat on the plane later. Your turkey on rye isn't going to go bad in the two hours from the time you buy it until you eat it at your gate as long as you don't leave it on the rear deck of the car baking in teh summer sun on the way to the airport.
Definitely this. I'll usually make a sandwich at home right before leaving, I can slap together a much better one than I'd get on the plane anyway.

People really overestimate how quickly something like a sandwich will go bad, I remember when we were kids we'd bring bologna or ham sandwiches to school in brown paper lunch bags and they'd sit in the closet until lunchtime.
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Old 07-29-2011, 06:08 PM
 
Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
38,854 posts, read 20,164,866 times
Reputation: 35902
Quote:
Originally Posted by slackjaw View Post
Definitely this. I'll usually make a sandwich at home right before leaving, I can slap together a much better one than I'd get on the plane anyway.

People really overestimate how quickly something like a sandwich will go bad, I remember when we were kids we'd bring bologna or ham sandwiches to school in brown paper lunch bags and they'd sit in the closet until lunchtime.
Yeah ... I purchased a yummy gourmet sandwich at JFK prior to my flight back home and it held up rather well. Plus, it was cheaper than the limited selections that were available on the plane.
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Old 07-29-2011, 07:01 PM
 
Location: Rochester
94 posts, read 216,457 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chatteress View Post
Clue me in as I honestly don't know what the term "legacy carriers" mean. Thanks.
Legacy carriers are the interstate carriers that existed before deregulation occured in 1978. Because they had established routes and were a hit with business travelers, they essentially can also be described as network carriers. They operate large hub and spoke networks with routes to small cities and international cities. They operate many fleet types. They are often called network carriers as well.

The legacy carriers left are:
- United
- Delta
- American
- US Airways

Former Network carriers:
- Continental
- Northwest
- TWA
- Pan Am
- Eastern
- Braniff

The contrast to legacies are low-cost carriers, most of whom were formed after deregulation, fly simple fleet types, offer inferior networks, yet appeal to infrequent travelers. Low-cost carriers have expanded over the past twenty years while the legacies have shrunk.

Quote:
It's still cheaper to fly commercially than fly your own plane unless you have several people going with you to split the cost.
My remark was intended to be sarcasm towards the person who said that flying commercially was expensive. Because the reality is, if you consider a $300 from New York to Los Angeles expensive, consider the alternatives, because after all, the airlines are cost effective travel, not luxury travel. They are the Kia of the aviation industry.

To operate a Cirrus SR22, you will spend at $300-400 an hour. Or if you took a private jet with a crew, that flight from New York to Los Angeles, costing $300 on the airlines, would cost upwards of $20,000 on a Citation or Learjet, once you account for fuel, pilots etc... I think people forget that the airlines are NOT a luxury service.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John23
The food issue I think is more about *thinking of the customer*. We live in convenience culture. I.e., 24 hour convenience stores, 7-11, pharmacies open late, etc.

But you don't really get that convenience on an airline...i.e. no hot food on a 2 or 3 hour trip. Also consider, many airports don't have good food. What if you get to an airport 2 hours early, little to eat. Then a 2-3 hour flight. At LAX all they have is burger king and starbucks basically. I think the legacies need a different business model.

I don't expect a gourmet meal, but the "food", is basically the end of the barrel. Very few people would line up for it if were sold at a mall foodcourt. It's part of the "cattle" experience. You're not really treated like a person, per se, but more like this person is going to get a $6 sandwich that costs us $4. You become a dollar sign (i.e. this person is negative $5 to us). Its very impersonal.

You can check the website or call ahead to see whats going on, but its still very erratic. Who knows what its going to look like in 6 months or a year. Are they going to charge for drinks in a year? Maybe.

The changes don't create loyalty or comfort. When are price increases (for little or no reason) ever good for a business?

-Another problem. None of the airlines really have anything proprietary. Like frequent flier programs. Its not proprietary, the way windows is to microsoft. Or like google's search algorithm.

The fact that everything has become standardized + the huge costs involved in running an airline = very slim profits/economics.

*About food again*

I know some flights are only 2-3 hours. But people spend 2-3 hours in a nice/decent restaurant. Its not a short amount of time. Consider that many families don't eat out. The bare bones/low cost approach (targeted to say, 30% of the flyers) hurts the other 70 who only fly once or twice a year.
You just don't get it do you? Airlines can't cost effectively provide meal service. If they include meals, they can't provide low fares and Americans chose the cheaper flights. If you want meal service, book first class or get a private jet with catered food in.

What would be the airlines different business model? The alternative is pre-deregulation appeal to the rich which then means the middle class will no longer be able to fly the airlines. I mean come on, the airlines have twenty year executives with MBA's and JD's from the best schools. They are putting the best model out there for the public.

The airlines have no loyality to the average customer because the customer has no loyality to the airline. The airlines have one goal: cheap fares.

Last edited by MINresident; 07-29-2011 at 07:24 PM..
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Old 07-29-2011, 09:27 PM
 
11,933 posts, read 21,518,965 times
Reputation: 11711
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chatteress View Post
There were a few cases I've encountered including the infamous one on my first-class flight on American Eagle. Unfortunately, my seat was located near where she perched her surly self and did not make for a pleasant flight. I don't need perky, just don't act as if I'm an inconvenience to you.
I hear you. Most airline personal can be very ornery. Interestingly enough, I find most to be very defensive, because of how passengers approach them. They start off that way. It's just the way it is, and will probably be forever in the US due to such razor thin profit margins and incredibly low pay. That FA on Eagle was probably making around $15,000 a year, not nearly enough to care who she offended. When you make wages like that, you really don't care. In fact many don't, and FA turnover is incredibly high. Jobs are pretty much always available.
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Old 07-29-2011, 10:12 PM
 
Location: Rochester
94 posts, read 216,457 times
Reputation: 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelsup View Post
I hear you. Most airline personal can be very ornery. Interestingly enough, I find most to be very defensive, because of how passengers approach them. They start off that way. It's just the way it is, and will probably be forever in the US due to such razor thin profit margins and incredibly low pay. That FA on Eagle was probably making around $15,000 a year, not nearly enough to care who she offended. When you make wages like that, you really don't care. In fact many don't, and FA turnover is incredibly high. Jobs are pretty much always available.

I agree that low pay can be frustrating. But I don't think pay should determine your work ethic. I grew up like most teenagers working low paying low skill jobs. But even at minimum wage, I would always go the extra mile for the customer... solving problems, getting managers when it was requsted, answering questions with a smile. The whole "I get paid minimum wage so I should treat people like crap" is pathetic. I know a lot of Americans tie their work ethic to their pay, thinking "Why should I help this company which pays me nothing." I just wish everyone would go the extra mile. Some people never learn...
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Old 07-29-2011, 10:21 PM
 
Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
38,854 posts, read 20,164,866 times
Reputation: 35902
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelsup View Post
I hear you. Most airline personal can be very ornery. Interestingly enough, I find most to be very defensive, because of how passengers approach them. They start off that way. It's just the way it is, and will probably be forever in the US due to such razor thin profit margins and incredibly low pay. That FA on Eagle was probably making around $15,000 a year, not nearly enough to care who she offended. When you make wages like that, you really don't care. In fact many don't, and FA turnover is incredibly high. Jobs are pretty much always available.
Well ... No one's forcing them to take those jobs ... Customers pay good money to fly and should not be subjected to the surliness of a disgruntled employee.
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Old 07-29-2011, 10:23 PM
 
Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
38,854 posts, read 20,164,866 times
Reputation: 35902
Quote:
Originally Posted by MINresident View Post
I agree that low pay can be frustrating. But I don't think pay should determine your work ethic. I grew up like most teenagers working low paying low skill jobs. But even at minimum wage, I would always go the extra mile for the customer... solving problems, getting managers when it was requsted, answering questions with a smile. The whole "I get paid minimum wage so I should treat people like crap" is pathetic. I know a lot of Americans tie their work ethic to their pay, thinking "Why should I help this company which pays me nothing." I just wish everyone would go the extra mile. Some people never learn...
I so agree with this ... I've worked minimum wage jobs but always went that extra mile for my customers. In fact, I actually received a $30 tip when I was a cashier at Jack in the Box, which is unheard of in a fast-food chain. I knew my boss was sad to see me leave but, as with any job that doesn't pay well, you look unto better opportunities.
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