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[Add in the baggage costs and such and Ryan Air isn't such a great deal.]
I paid $20 for our checked bag with Ryan Air, the last time I looked Delta, United and American Airlines were all charging the same or more. Having just checked flights with United from Anchorage to Seattle in June, I'm seeing $406 for the red eye or $546 for a daytime flight. Same distance flight (3 hours) London to Kos, Greece same dates $198. Note this is also in the middle of the tourist season for Greece.
The long and the short of it is that folks over here are brainwashed into thinking its 'normal' to pay $500 for a flight when clearly its not.
I'm paying under $550 for 4 flights; Nashville-Phoenix round trip (4 hrs each way), Nashville-Chicago round trip (1 hr per).
I'm in Western NY and we've looked at taking the train to NYC, Washington DC and Chicago for different trips and the "train experience". Everytime we checked the train was more expensive than flying! I was shocked!! How do they surive if flying is faster & cheaper?
Most routes AMTRAK runs are no longer economical. Cruising across the Atlantic to Europe is no longer transportation, but a vacation for the very rich (more economical cruises are mostly in the Caribbean) . AMTRAK make it's most money on "land cruises" through the prettiest terrain like Chicago to Seattle and Seattle to Los Angeles.
Most of the system should be abandoned except for the cruise lines (like Chicago to Seattle), and concentrate on improving the segments where true transportation is required. At a minimum they should aim for a level of service of 150 mph commuter trains in Europe (not long distance trains in Europe or the Chinese system).
Houston-Dallas-San Antonio-Austin, NE trains from Washington to Boston, Chicago to Minneapolis, San Diego to Los Angeles, Sacrament to San Francisco, Harrisburg to Philadelphia, Los Angeles to Las Vegas, Seattle to Portland, and Orlando to Tampa and Miami.
It is senseless to run jet service on these routes, and the highways are jammed.
Most routes AMTRAK runs are no longer economical. Cruising across the Atlantic to Europe is no longer transportation, but a vacation for the very rich (more economical cruises are mostly in the Caribbean) .
Actually, you are wrong. Other than Cunard, on a daily basis, the cost of a trans-Atlantic cruise is cheaper than any Bahamas or Caribbean cruise. The cruise lines reposition their ships twice a year, and cut the rates on those trans-Atlantic sailings just to fill berths as many aren't interested in five to eight days at sea in a row.
Trains need a fairly level route or have to build tunnels or use bridges over gorges.
Trains can't go up and down hills.
I live in western Colorado, I certainly know something about hills. And mountains. And four hour delays on the highway due to knucklehead drivers, jack knifed tractor trailers, and believe it or not one snow slide that buried cars in a 200 foot section of I-70 in the high country of a section C-Dot truck drivers call "the chutes."
The last time I was on Amtrak was three years ago in January. I went to Denver to pick up a car that was a deal I couldn't refuse. I wasn't in a hurry which is good because a four hour drive by car is a six hour train ride on I-70 from Grand Junction to Denver. Weekend travel in the high country I avoid like the plague which is why an occasional train ride works for me. I've driven over two million miles in my life and if someone else is the pilot I say THANK YOU!
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Originally Posted by jeepin4us
I'm in Western NY and we've looked at taking the train to NYC, Washington DC and Chicago for different trips and the "train experience". Everytime we checked the train was more expensive than flying! I was shocked!! How do they surive if flying is faster & cheaper?
I hear your frustration. I needed a last minute ticket to get home from Dallas to LA and found that the Amtrak charged more than $100 more than Virgin America ... Of course, I opted for flying. Quicker and cheaper. Don't know how they can justify their high costs. You can get way more passengers if you lower the costs as who wants to sit on a train for days when flying will get you there in mere hours?
Most routes AMTRAK runs are no longer economical. Cruising across the Atlantic to Europe is no longer transportation, but a vacation for the very rich (more economical cruises are mostly in the Caribbean) . AMTRAK make it's most money on "land cruises" through the prettiest terrain like Chicago to Seattle and Seattle to Los Angeles.
Amtrak involves so much overhead that it's just about impossible for any part of the network to turn a "profit" under strict accounting practices. And in fairness, it is also so intertwined with various commuter-hauling agencies that its contribution to maintaining their infrastructure is probably understated.
The big problem with the long-distance "cruise ships" is that they are sufficiently patronized for only perhaps four months of the year, and the construction of new equipment for the peak season can hardly be justified.
Getting speeds up to the 150 MPH range along most of the Boston-New York-Washington "Corridor" would be a real fete accopmplis -- if you ride the Megabus up I-95. which paralells the old New Haven main line, it's easy to see why. New routes have been proposed, but given the areas through which they'd have to pass, we can count on spending mega-bucks and stepping on powerful, well-connected toes.
But having said that, we have to recognize that rebuilt Amtrak services along both coasts have been well-received, and there are two new "corridors" under development (Chicago-Ann Arbor-Detroit and Chicago-Springfield-St Louis) which suit the new realities (and the ones likely to emrge and instensify) pretty nicely.
If I could change one thing about what's evolving right now, it would be to find a way to mitigate the squabbling between state and local politicians who often either don't have a complete picture, or put their own goals ahead of everything else - New Jersey vs. Pennsylvania is simply the issue with which I've gained the greatest famiarity, and experienced the most frustration.
Last edited by 2nd trick op; 03-17-2013 at 06:18 PM..
[Add in the baggage costs and such and Ryan Air isn't such a great deal.]
I paid $20 for our checked bag with Ryan Air, the last time I looked Delta, United and American Airlines were all charging the same or more. Having just checked flights with United from Anchorage to Seattle in June, I'm seeing $406 for the red eye or $546 for a daytime flight. Same distance flight (3 hours) London to Kos, Greece same dates $198. Note this is also in the middle of the tourist season for Greece.
The long and the short of it is that folks over here are brainwashed into thinking its 'normal' to pay $500 for a flight when clearly its not.
You're problem is that you're judging everything with travel to Alaska ... which is one of the most expensive places to fly. And your European flights are between very popular (generally much less expensive) destinations, and assuming that all travel is that cheap.
I looked at some US bargain flights, and currently available:
Travel by Amtrak is expensive but it makes good sense under the right conditions based on your departure and destination and the travel dates. I recently went from Jefferson City, MO to Albuquerque NM by Amtrak. I was gone for eight days. Parking at the station was free. I had flexible travel dates so I could shop around for cheaper roomette days and found good prices -- over $120 below the usual rate and about $200 off the highest rate. The food was included in the roomette price and was good and plentiful...better than I would have eaten if I had driven and much better than anything on a plane. I enjoy the community seating in the dining car and met very interesting people all along the way.
I usually drive this trip each year and spend two nights on the road each way with at least two meals purchased each day. When I compared the travel costs it was going to be about the same. The difference was that going by train meant I needed to rent a car. If I flew I would have needed a car plus I would have had significant cost for airport parking and the hassle of driving 120 miles to a major airport. Depending on the flight schedule I might have needed an airport motel stay before I left or when I got back (or both).
People on a tight schedule probably shouldn't take Amtrak. I met several business people on their way home from meetings or conferences but most people were retirees or vacationers. I was surprised by the number of passengers going coast to coast. I would do this trip again without a second thought. I kept waiting for something to go wrong but it never did and the trip exceeded my expectations on several levels.
Travel by Amtrak is expensive but it makes good sense under the right conditions based on your departure and destination and the travel dates. I recently went from Jefferson City, MO to Albuquerque NM by Amtrak. I was gone for eight days. Parking at the station was free. I had flexible travel dates so I could shop around for cheaper roomette days and found good prices -- over $120 below the usual rate and about $200 off the highest rate. The food was included in the roomette price and was good and plentiful...better than I would have eaten if I had driven and much better than anything on a plane. I enjoy the community seating in the dining car and met very interesting people all along the way.
I usually drive this trip each year and spend two nights on the road each way with at least two meals purchased each day. When I compared the travel costs it was going to be about the same. The difference was that going by train meant I needed to rent a car. If I flew I would have needed a car plus I would have had significant cost for airport parking and the hassle of driving 120 miles to a major airport. Depending on the flight schedule I might have needed an airport motel stay before I left or when I got back (or both).
People on a tight schedule probably shouldn't take Amtrak. I met several business people on their way home from meetings or conferences but most people were retirees or vacationers. I was surprised by the number of passengers going coast to coast. I would do this trip again without a second thought. I kept waiting for something to go wrong but it never did and the trip exceeded my expectations on several levels.
If you flew you wouldn't need to worry about food or a roomette, it would be a five hour trip, give or take, and you are welcome to bring a sandwich with you. I just plugged in some random dates and found $222 r/t STL to ABQ on American, and there are places to park around STL with shuttle service for $35/week. Apples to oranges.
If you flew you wouldn't need to worry about food or a roomette, it would be a five hour trip, give or take, and you are welcome to bring a sandwich with you. I just plugged in some random dates and found $222 r/t STL to ABQ on American, and there are places to park around STL with shuttle service for $35/week. Apples to oranges.
But you have to live, be housed, and eat, for those two days there (and two back). Those costs don't just go away because you flew.
I don't think that Amtrak is any more expensive than any other method of travel. It's costs are in the time it takes. And if that's something someone doesn't want to (or can't) give up, it's not the method of travel for them.
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