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Old 08-08-2013, 08:57 AM
 
Location: Powell, Oh
1,846 posts, read 4,733,137 times
Reputation: 1088

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Quote:
Originally Posted by indy_317 View Post
What is middle class though? I think that is part of the problem. You could have a family of four with a combined income of $100K, maybe a bit more, and they will claim they are two steps from poverty at any given time. Of course they don't realize they drop $200/month for a cell phone plan, $200/month for cable TV, $3,000-$4,000 a year eating out, $1,500-$2,500 for a "premium" new car package, etc.. My family went to Disney with my nieces a few years ago. The first time, it was just grandparents who had a paid work trip, so they took the oldest. After a year or two, they decided to take them both back and mom and dad went as well. It can be costly, but it can be negated as well. I see folks I work with spend $7-$15 a day on lunch....95% of the time. That right there is $2,500ish for eating lunch during work. I bring my lunch to work 98% of the time, and spend about $500/year to do so. That right there leaves $2,000 for a Disney vacation that many don't have because they are lazy, want someone else to do the cooking and serving for them, and/or have really bad time management skills.


That is my thinking also.

You don't have to make drastic cuts in your life. But just by not eating out, you can use that money for a family vacation. It doesn't have to be Disney, either. Just spend time together.

A lot of people spend their money frivolously
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Old 08-08-2013, 09:22 AM
 
606 posts, read 942,014 times
Reputation: 824
Quote:
Originally Posted by indy_317 View Post
What is middle class though? I think that is part of the problem. You could have a family of four with a combined income of $100K, maybe a bit more, and they will claim they are two steps from poverty at any given time. Of course they don't realize they drop $200/month for a cell phone plan, $200/month for cable TV, $3,000-$4,000 a year eating out, $1,500-$2,500 for a "premium" new car package, etc.
We have a combined income of over $100K. My spouse's phone is paid for by his job and I have a cheap prepaid (about $6/month). Neither of us has ever had a car payment; we share one ten-year-old car. We don't have cable, and his work pays for our internet. We do the vast majority of our own cooking at home. We have no student loans or any other debt besides a mortgage. Neither of us has a gym membership. We don't buy much in terms of clothing. We're pretty conscious about our spending -- with room to improve, of course.

And yeah, I still would consider a vacation as expensive as Disney to be a huge luxury at best and downright irresponsible at worst in our financial position. We're not "two steps from poverty" by any means, but we're not financially independent either.

This isn't a "boo-hoo, poor me" post. I'm well aware of how lucky I am, and I personally wouldn't go to Disney even if I did feel like we could spend that kind of money on something discretionary like a vacation.
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Old 08-08-2013, 09:59 AM
 
Location: Here
2,754 posts, read 7,401,742 times
Reputation: 2872
What I don't understand is why some people fly rather than drive. Driving costs 1/4 of flying and renting a car. And don't give me that they don't have a car. I doubt anyone with kids doesn't have a car unless they live in a big city.
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Old 08-08-2013, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Fishers, IN
4,969 posts, read 6,247,341 times
Reputation: 4935
Quote:
Originally Posted by NARFALICIOUS View Post
What I don't understand is why some people fly rather than drive. Driving costs 1/4 of flying and renting a car. And don't give me that they don't have a car. I doubt anyone with kids doesn't have a car unless they live in a big city.
It depends where you are coming from. Driving from where I live in Indianapolis is cheaper even with the cost of two overnight hotel stays (one there, one back). But driving from, say, Denver, or Pheonix where you might have to stay 2 or 3 nights on the way there and and again on the way back, flying is much more cost effective.
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Old 08-08-2013, 10:09 AM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
77,772 posts, read 104,420,118 times
Reputation: 49248
Quote:
Originally Posted by NARFALICIOUS View Post
What I don't understand is why some people fly rather than drive. Driving costs 1/4 of flying and renting a car. And don't give me that they don't have a car. I doubt anyone with kids doesn't have a car unless they live in a big city.
That probably depends on several things, number 1 time and number 2-distance. If a family has to drive 4 or 5 days just to get to the park area, the time would be an issue and the cost might be as high as flying, by the time you figure meals for a family of 4, cost of gas and lodging, plus several days in a car with a couple of young kids isn't some people's idea of a good time. For some it would be fine.
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Old 08-08-2013, 10:50 AM
 
Location: In the sticks, SC
1,639 posts, read 5,091,010 times
Reputation: 1094
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stijl Council View Post
We have a combined income of over $100K. My spouse's phone is paid for by his job and I have a cheap prepaid (about $6/month). Neither of us has ever had a car payment; we share one ten-year-old car. We don't have cable, and his work pays for our internet. We do the vast majority of our own cooking at home. We have no student loans or any other debt besides a mortgage. Neither of us has a gym membership. We don't buy much in terms of clothing. We're pretty conscious about our spending -- with room to improve, of course.

And yeah, I still would consider a vacation as expensive as Disney to be a huge luxury at best and downright irresponsible at worst in our financial position. We're not "two steps from poverty" by any means, but we're not financially independent either.

This isn't a "boo-hoo, poor me" post. I'm well aware of how lucky I am, and I personally wouldn't go to Disney even if I did feel like we could spend that kind of money on something discretionary like a vacation.
You sound like you could easily afford a Disney vacation, it just doesn't interest you. That's fine, different strokes for different folks. Also it sounds like your main priority is saving and/or investing, which is also fine.
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Old 08-08-2013, 10:53 AM
 
Location: In the sticks, SC
1,639 posts, read 5,091,010 times
Reputation: 1094
Quote:
Originally Posted by NARFALICIOUS View Post
What I don't understand is why some people fly rather than drive. Driving costs 1/4 of flying and renting a car. And don't give me that they don't have a car. I doubt anyone with kids doesn't have a car unless they live in a big city.
It depends on where you're traveling from. IMO, anything more than 10 hours driving you're better off flying. Everybody doesn't have the stomach for long drives.
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Old 08-08-2013, 12:16 PM
 
Location: Here
2,754 posts, read 7,401,742 times
Reputation: 2872
Quote:
Originally Posted by ischyros View Post
It depends where you are coming from. Driving from where I live in Indianapolis is cheaper even with the cost of two overnight hotel stays (one there, one back). But driving from, say, Denver, or Pheonix where you might have to stay 2 or 3 nights on the way there and and again on the way back, flying is much more cost effective.
Extreme case: Seattle, WA to Orlando, FL
2 parents 2 kids.

3200 miles
20mpg hwy rated car and gas at $4.50 per gallon: $1440 gas roundtrip

if they have to stop at a hotel for 2 separate nights each way: $600
Food for the trip eating out ($15/person and 3 meals each for 3 days on the road round trip): $1080
----------
$3120


Looking up the cheapest flights on Orbitz for 2 adults 2 children
$3204 all passengers roundtrip

Savings of $84 not including having to rent a car for around town when you get there.

Yes time is a factor since this is an extreme case. But figure a 25-30mpg hwy rated car, cheaper meals, and a shorter trip from say Indianapolis, Nashville, DC or even Texas or NY and the savings could be hundreds.

Nashville - 10-11 hour trip or 13 if you figure breaks and food.
700 miles
20mpg hwy rated car and gas at $4.50 per gallon roundtrip: $315
Food (same criteria but 1 day each way, roundtrip): $360.00
------
$675

Flights on orbitz, round trip for the whole family total $1962


Savings of $1287, not including having to rent a car there
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Old 08-08-2013, 12:17 PM
 
67 posts, read 134,895 times
Reputation: 69
Wow. Disney is expensive, but it's not nearly as expensive as some people think. My husband loves to spend a week at the beach in the summer, but for the same money as the oceanfront rooms he likes, we could spend a week at Disney World. Or close enough. I like both types of trips, but to me the Disney trip seems like a lot more for the money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasper12 View Post
$3000 give or take, for four days....no airfare in that...add airfare, conservative, $250 x 5
$1250.

I am not wealthy, but I have a lot of experience traveling with kids, and I have been to Disney, you may not believe me, but I have probably way underestimated on costs.

I suppose, a family could drive there, do camping, ( even camping at Disney is $54 a night!).

One bottle of cold water at Disney? $2.50.

Personally, take the kids to a National Park...pack your cooler, go camping and hiking. And don't stress about the money.
We're lucky to live only about a 7 hour drive away. Our first family Disney trip was in February of 2009. I was having a hard time justifying Disney to my DH who had no personal interest in it. But with a 4 year old DD, he agreed to try it. Luckily for us, Disney was facing the effects of the "great recession" and had a "buy 4 nights, stay 7" deal with $200 spending (food) money thrown in. The week ran roughly $1000, not including gasoline. And I think I went ahead & splurged an extra $100 (approx.) on Disney's photopass service. I know I splurged on a meal at the castle. Otherwise we could have done that trip for almost exactly the $1000.
You will not find anywhere near that great a deal today, and we had only 2 adults & 1 kid, but it still is possible to take a WDW week without spending $2000.

Also, FYI, unless they have changed in the last month, you can get free ice water in the parks. Granted it's not bottled water, but it's cold refreshing water at least.

Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland View Post
My dentist, who makes good money, just returned from Disneyworld and she was complaining about the prices. I've always thought a trip to something "real" like a national park would be better anyway. Maybe kids are brainwashed into thinking they need to go to Disney. Save the money and do something meaningful.
I love the National Parks. If the kids don't want to go to Disney, good for them! But if they (or parents) want to go, a Disney vacation once in a while doesn't mean they can't see the real stuff in other years, assuming the family is able to vacation at all every year or so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Htown2013 View Post
Disney seems to cost about $1000/day for a family of four, all inclusive, for the 4-7 day range. Yes, I know people who dropped $7k for a week at Disney World this year. $7k. Middle Class is relative, but let's say a $75k income. Take home would be much less. There's no way blowing $5-7k would be responsible for a middle class family.

It's almost like a family would need to make $150k/year before it would not be irresponsible to go there.
I must be irresponsible then, because our income is much, much lower than that. Although, I've never spent $5000 on one Disney trip. I know people do, but it seems to me that most of the folks who spend that much live different lifestyles than we do, and earn a lot more than we do, so they probably can afford the more deluxe experience. We don't do anything extravagant there. We just eat and go on rides and go to shows and sleep and swim. No spa experiences, no suites, no watercraft rentals, etc. for us. We're too busy in the parks to bother with those things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spencgr View Post
Just curious....it's an amusement park, right? Why would you ever need to spend more than one day there? Why does everyone price it out at 4-5 days?
People will disagree, but to me, Disney World is much better than any other "amusement park" I've been to. I would place it in a different category.
Disney simply runs its parks very well. I enjoy the landscaping, the customer service (the mostly friendly "cast members" are a nice change from the average amusement park employee, although certainly Disney hires some less good people, and the amusement parks sometimes have pleasant personnel), and the food is much better than I get "back home" in South Carolina. It's a culinary treat for me. And I like how Disney doesn't "nickel and dime" us. We can walk into the park and have fun all day with nothing more than lunch money.
Disney World is HUGE, too. I was there 6 nights recently and did not experience some of my favorite rides, simply because there is so much to do.
Also, most important, Disney's pricing model makes it more cost effective to purchase multiple day tickets. You don't save money at 2 days, or not even really at 3 days. But then as you get to 4, 5, 6, etc. day tickets, you pay only a few dollars more to add a day. When I was a kid, we made 1 day visits driving from our home in Florida. If I was still in Florida, I would do that. Since I live in a different state now, longer visits are simply more cost effective and satisfying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasper12 View Post
Put in perspective, a four day Dismey experience would be a months salary for most middle class people. .
I consider our family's income level to be lower middle class. 6 figures is certainly something we will never see. But a week at Disney would not run more than our monthly income, even if we were going with 4.
It could, yes, if we stayed in the "Deluxe" resorts and bought a bunch of souvenirs. But it doesn't, for us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayCT View Post
Plus having been to a lot of different parks over the years, I will say Disney is by far the leader. The place is very clean and there are knowledgible people everywhere to help you. Every corner you turn has a new adventure or amusement. There are characters to see, shows to watch and parades and fireworks that are unrivaled anywhere. The rides will make you scratch your head wondering how they thought of that and if you allow yourself you will be lost in the fun of the whole place.

As to whether a middle class family can afford a trip, a lot does depend on the family. Obviously a middle class family must save for this and will not be going often. But certainly they can afford to go if they save over the course of several years. Also there are ways to save money when there. Do a lot of online research before going to save on hotels and food while down there. I really do think every one should go at least once. Jay
Yes, online research. There are some very good websites with a lot of information on the different resorts, even off-site alternatives, the menus, and most important, the current "specials". And if you don't like to search for the "deals" yourself, find a travel agent who specializes in Disney World. Or at least one who is very knowledgeable about the discounts and will search to find you the best rate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlightAttendant View Post
Instead of taking our kids to Disney, we took them to Europe. We saw London, Paris, Rome etc...every summer we went somewhere new. No, they didnt see the big deal Disney, but their memories are JUST as exciting....and I venture to say it, MORE exciting than an artificially designed Magic place. Versailles was magic. Rome was magic. Brussels was magic..to them. They (now late 20s) still talk about their adventures. Believe it or not, it cost about the same to do what we did instead. Priorities are different for different people.
That is awesome. I'm not sure I can afford to take my DD to Europe though. But we may find a way to swing it sometime in the future. I know DH isn't interested, so it would probably be just the 2 of us, which would help on the airfare, at least. :-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita View Post
you are right, or lets say 5 is the youngest. If a family is going to splurge on something like that, you want your kids to take the memories with them. I still say, 5 to 10 is the best age.
DD was 4 on her first trip. One great advantage of going then was that we got the best of the deals Disney was offering at the time because we were able to go at a low season by skipping pre-school for a week. Now that she's older, that's not such an easy option for us. So our costs would be slightly higher than our first trip even if the economy had not improved. The very best deals will be at the seasons when not everyone can travel.
We have enjoyed all our trips, for different reasons. At 4, DD was just precious, and so in awe of Disney World, the castle, the princesses, everything. But it was a very "kiddie" oriented vacation. Now that she is older, we can go on bigger rides, which is fun, too!

Last edited by fishoutofwaterinSC; 08-08-2013 at 12:43 PM..
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Old 08-08-2013, 12:59 PM
 
Location: Fishers, IN
4,969 posts, read 6,247,341 times
Reputation: 4935
Quote:
Originally Posted by NARFALICIOUS View Post
Extreme case: Seattle, WA to Orlando, FL
2 parents 2 kids.

3200 miles
20mpg hwy rated car and gas at $4.50 per gallon: $1440 gas roundtrip

if they have to stop at a hotel for 2 separate nights each way: $600
Food for the trip eating out ($15/person and 3 meals each for 3 days on the road round trip): $1080
----------
$3120


Looking up the cheapest flights on Orbitz for 2 adults 2 children
$3204 all passengers roundtrip

Savings of $84 not including having to rent a car for around town when you get there.

Yes time is a factor since this is an extreme case. But figure a 25-30mpg hwy rated car, cheaper meals, and a shorter trip from say Indianapolis, Nashville, DC or even Texas or NY and the savings could be hundreds.

Nashville - 10-11 hour trip or 13 if you figure breaks and food.
700 miles
20mpg hwy rated car and gas at $4.50 per gallon roundtrip: $315
Food (same criteria but 1 day each way, roundtrip): $360.00
------
$675

Flights on orbitz, round trip for the whole family total $1962


Savings of $1287, not including having to rent a car there
Orbitz is not always the cheapest way to get flights. A Southwest flight from Seattle to Orlando will cost you $1366 round trip for four people. If you're doing a strictly Disney vacation and thus staying on Disney property, there is no need to rent a car. Most hotels off property also have airport and theme park shuttles, but yes typically if you stay off property, it makes more sense to rent a car.

Also, from Seattle its about a 45 hour drive. No way are you making that in 3 days, even if you drive 12 hours a day, which most families with kids would not want to do. It will typically take 4 days with a total of 6 nights in a hotel. Besides, even in your example you show that you can pay just $80 more and be there in 6 or 7 hours instead of 4 days (8 total round trip) in the car.

I'm just saying yes there are definitely cases where driving in can be cheaper, but for many people, especially those with kids, flying is cheaper and getting there in 3 or 4 hours instead of 3 or 4 days on the road is worth it.
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