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Old 09-01-2014, 11:10 PM
 
Location: Airports all over the world
6,190 posts, read 6,361,261 times
Reputation: 100871

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallybalt View Post
Just curious - when the airline you called said it wasn't a criteria, what exactly does that mean? It's not clear to me. To be honest, it sounds like the airline gave you a vague response that could go either way.

As it is, airlines give people reclining seats, the anti reclining clamps are banned on all major US airlines and airline stewardesses will not tell you to not recline seats, except for meals and take off/landing. It tells me the airlines side with people's "right" to recline seats regardless of the passenger behind them.
Most airlines have a policy regarding passengers of size. They list the criteria used to determine if a passenger needs to purchase an additional seat. It varies from airline to airline. Some of the criteria the airlines use include being able to lower the armrest, needing more than one seatbelt extension and not invading the space of the passenger beside you. I have yet to find an airline that uses not being able to sit such that you do not interfer with the passenger in front of you ability to recline their seat as a criteria in determining if they are a passenger of size. I have also yet to find an airline that has a passenger of height policy.

The airlines ban the the use of anti reclining clamps because it is modifying the aircraft. My knees blocking the seat from reclining does not modify the aircraft in any way.

Just because the flight attendants do not say you must not recline does not give you the "right" to recline. I have yet to hear a flight attendant say passengers must not pass gas for 2 hours during the flight. Does that mean a passenger has the "right" to pass gas for 2 hours?

My position in this debate is based on fact. So far all I have seen from the posters supporting the "right" to recline unimpeded is a bunch of "this is how it is because I said so". Show me some cold hard facts regarding a passenger's right to recline unimpeded.
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Old 09-01-2014, 11:15 PM
 
1,162 posts, read 1,995,089 times
Reputation: 2585
What you're saying is that the airline you spoke to told you if the seat is unable to recline any further due to the person behind it, then there's nothing that can be done? Correct?

It makes sense because the bulk of the person is preventing the seat from reclining all the way back. The airline won't ask that person to move so the seat can recline to its maximum.

At the same time, if the first passenger in front reclines the seat and stops just short of the knees of the second passenger behind him (still a cramped situation for many), there's nothing the second passenger can do either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post
No, a person can recline their seat, but as such, the airline is not going to make a passenger move if they are too tall for a person to recline their seat; the airlines have also established by practice that a person does not have an unrestricted right to recline their seat. If a seat will not recline due to the person behind being too tall, that is just too bad for the person wanting to recline.
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Old 09-01-2014, 11:26 PM
 
Location: Airports all over the world
6,190 posts, read 6,361,261 times
Reputation: 100871
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallybalt View Post
What you're saying is that the airline you spoke to told you if the seat is unable to recline any further due to the person behind it, then there's nothing that can be done? Correct?

It makes sense because the bulk of the person is preventing the seat from reclining all the way back. The airline won't ask that person to move so the seat can recline to its maximum.

At the same time, if the first passenger in front reclines the seat and stops just short of the knees of the second passenger behind him (still a cramped situation for many), there's nothing the second passenger can do either.
If the airline is able to reseat one or the other passenger they usually will. However if reseating a passenger is not an option or both passengers refuse to be reseated then yes, it is what it is.

If there is room for a passenger to recline to a point then yes the passenger is allowed to recline. Is it their absolute right? I am still waiting for someone, anyone, to show me where this is so.
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Old 09-01-2014, 11:28 PM
 
Location: Sunrise
10,868 posts, read 14,334,207 times
Reputation: 9018
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eazine View Post

PS short people, like me, leave the exit rows for the taller folks. They need it more than we do.
I wish everyone felt the way that you do. Besides in the event of an actual emergency, who do you want at that exit door? I can rip it right off the frame of the plane if the crew asks me. (Hulk SMASH!)

I wish that airlines didn't monetize the exit rows. Many of those seats don't recline, anyway. So I'm not affecting the passengers in any direction of me. I'll just fold myself into my space and I'm not in anyone's way. There's also usually a seat near the flight attendant jump seats that they try to get for me.

Thankfully, the airline employees do a truly great job getting me someplace where my height isn't an issue. The sense of entitlement I see from some is just stunning. They bought a ticket on an airplane. They do not own the seat. If they are told they can't recline (take-off and landing, for instance), they must follow the instructions or they're potentially leaving the plane in handcuffs.

The first time I called an attendant to make the person in front of me stop slamming, he was using the wall of the bulkhead for leverage and trying to heave the seat back. The attendant told the man to knock it off or suffer the consequences. We could have switched positions, and he could have all the recline that he wanted. But no, he wanted the legroom and the recline. I understand why. Flying isn't comfortable and we all have to make due.

More than 90% of the time, I am able to prepare in advance and nobody suffers because of my height. And even that 1-in-10 flight, the flight crew is usually able to make it work. The problem is those full, last-minute flights where even first is full (they have moved me to first before). Nobody is going to be happy in that event. Sorry about that. I truly am. But I have every right to fly, just like the next (usually shorter) person. And if I ever have to fly and there's someone even taller than me (hasn't happened yet), I'll give up my seat if necessary that I did the legwork to make sure I got.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskan Mutt View Post
I have yet to find an airline that uses not being able to sit such that you do not interfer with the passenger in front of you ability to recline their seat as a criteria in determining if they are a passenger of size. I have also yet to find an airline that has a passenger of height policy.
This has been my experience as well. The couple times this has been an issue, they have sided with me. Not the seat slammer.
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Old 09-01-2014, 11:39 PM
 
1,162 posts, read 1,995,089 times
Reputation: 2585
There are no absolute rights on an airline. No one "owns" their seat, they're just "renting" the seat for the duration of a flight. Just as when you rent something, there are always terms and conditions and expectations.

This is what we have:

1. Seats recline. This is nothing new. Seats have been reclining in airlines as long back as I can remember.

2. Anti reclining clamps are banned by the airlines.

3. No written policy that you must get approval of the person behind you to recline the seat. Is this ever announced by the flight attendants along with the intro to the flight at the beginning? I don't think so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskan Mutt View Post
If there is room for a passenger to recline to a point then yes the passenger is allowed to recline. Is it their absolute right? I am still waiting for someone, anyone, to show me where this is so.
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Old 09-02-2014, 12:01 AM
 
Location: Airports all over the world
6,190 posts, read 6,361,261 times
Reputation: 100871
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallybalt View Post
There are no absolute rights on an airline. No one "owns" their seat, they're just "renting" the seat for the duration of a flight. Just as when you rent something, there are always terms and conditions and expectations.

This is what we have:

3. No written policy that you must get approval of the person behind you to recline the seat. Is this ever announced by the flight attendants along with the intro to the flight at the beginning? I don't think so.
Nor is there written policy that I must do whatever it takes so that someone can recline their seat.
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Old 09-02-2014, 12:30 AM
 
3,245 posts, read 4,402,450 times
Reputation: 2541
Quote:
Originally Posted by annerk View Post
not infringe on the rights of others to use their airplane seat as it was designed.
A constitutional right? Or granted by state law or international treaty? The Rights of Man?

Last edited by bigjake54; 09-02-2014 at 12:51 AM..
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Old 09-02-2014, 01:13 AM
 
Location: East of the Sun, West of the Moon
15,607 posts, read 17,909,759 times
Reputation: 31117
I hate when the person in front of me reclines all the way.

But you know what? It is entirely in their right. If the cabin lights are off and I am sleepy, I put my seat back sometimes, too. When drinks or meals are served, I put my seat back up for the duration.

If the person behind me says, "Excuse me, but I have very long legs, could you not recline all the way?" I'll be kind and move my seat up because that is what decent people do. We are all in this together.

The amount of immaturity in this thread on both sides of the argument (certain people, not a general statement) makes me understand why society is so dysfunctional.
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Old 09-02-2014, 01:28 AM
 
Location: England
25,069 posts, read 6,257,456 times
Reputation: 30518
Wow...... a lot of arguments over a few inches........ When we travel to Las Vegas, it is a long flight, and most folks recline. The flights I travel on with Thomas Cook airlines have 33" seat pitch which seems to make reclining less of a problem. The only flights I have ever been on where seats don't recline are on Jet2 here in England. This was on a flight with them to Cyprus. But, the seats were designed to slope slightly more than in other airline seats, so were quite comfortable. Plus they had a clever design of back seat. Instead of having the pocket for the magazines low on the seat, there was a sort of netting at the top. This allowed the lower part of the seat to have a sort of scooped out back, giving a little more knee room. I have never seen this design in other airline seats, and was a definite help. Let's face it, when it comes to airline seat gaps, every inch counts!
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Old 09-02-2014, 03:11 AM
 
Location: Vermont
1,053 posts, read 1,443,647 times
Reputation: 2098
Quote:
Originally Posted by annerk View Post
If you know you can't fit in your seat the way the seats on the airplane were designed, buy the space you need. Your problem is not mine. Period.
We need more people like this in the world. What goes around comes around.
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