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Old 09-24-2014, 06:08 AM
 
Location: Long Island
8,743 posts, read 12,190,584 times
Reputation: 5048

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Quote:
Originally Posted by English Dave View Post
These people clean rooms for a living. A tiring job. They get paid to do so, like so many other workers in the service industry. It is not right to try and blackmail people in this way. Marriott should pay it's workers properly, not try to make hotel guests pay them.
Waiters and restaurants too. Look up the % markup on a burger or pasta dish at a restaurant and then try and tell me they would need to raise food prices if they started paying their waiters for real. A few more bucks an hour - come on now. We're being scammed, plain and simple.

Last edited by ovi8; 09-24-2014 at 06:35 AM..
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Old 09-24-2014, 06:55 AM
 
14,260 posts, read 23,991,339 times
Reputation: 20072
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry10 View Post
First, I wasn't asking you why. Secondly, can you provide a link to IRS to back up your claim? Third, is it reasonable to expect from us to know the IRS code for the ramifications our $ 3 has?

ScoopLV is right to a point. Google "imputed tips" and you WILL see the requirements that the IRS places on employers of tipped employees.

To summarize, all tipped employees are SUPPOSED to report ALL TIPS they receive as income. ALL means ALL. (Personally, I have never seen my first totally honest wait person who reports 100% and I was in the business for 15 years. I always did -wink, wink.). The IRS says that the employee must be taxed on 8.5% of the business handled

Therefore, employers are required to impute tips on the checks that a waiter handles. Say, a waitress handles $1500 in business last Saturday night. The imputed tips would be about $120. She would be taxed on at least that much. The purpose of these rules is to tax income that had been "under the table" for years.

(For the record, my knowledge of the IRS code is several years old and I have been out of the business for twenty years or more. I am familiar with the theory but not all the practice.)

In that MOST people tip 15-20%, more than likely, the waitress makes way more than the imputed tips. In the example above, the waitress probably earns $250-300 in tips that night as opposed to the $120 imputed number. An occasional stiff will NOT cause the waitress any more in taxes. If everyone stiffs the waitress, she is seriously impacted. However, you have to have a pretty poor attitude or provide lousy service to have that happen. Or get stuck with a lot of Europeans.
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Old 09-24-2014, 07:07 AM
 
Location: Ubique
4,148 posts, read 3,160,198 times
Reputation: 2634
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlawrence01 View Post
ScoopLV is right to a point. Google "imputed tips" and you WILL see the requirements that the IRS places on employers of tipped employees.

To summarize, all tipped employees are SUPPOSED to report ALL TIPS they receive as income. ALL means ALL. (Personally, I have never seen my first totally honest wait person who reports 100% and I was in the business for 15 years. I always did -wink, wink.). The IRS says that the employee must be taxed on 8.5% of the business handled

Therefore, employers are required to impute tips on the checks that a waiter handles. Say, a waitress handles $1500 in business last Saturday night. The imputed tips would be about $120. She would be taxed on at least that much. The purpose of these rules is to tax income that had been "under the table" for years.

(For the record, my knowledge of the IRS code is several years old and I have been out of the business for twenty years or more. I am familiar with the theory but not all the practice.)

In that MOST people tip 15-20%, more than likely, the waitress makes way more than the imputed tips. In the example above, the waitress probably earns $250-300 in tips that night as opposed to the $120 imputed number. An occasional stiff will NOT cause the waitress any more in taxes. If everyone stiffs the waitress, she is seriously impacted. However, you have to have a pretty poor attitude or provide lousy service to have that happen. Or get stuck with a lot of Europeans.
Ok, that's fine, regardless that your brief explanation of rules (which may or may not be correct) just gave me a headache.

But since I love equality of treatment, and since I am supposed to know IRS tax Rules for housekeepers -- since I pay thousands of payees every year, then am I supposed to research and comprehend tax implications of each of these payments I make? If not, then why only housekeepers?

So, the idea that I must tip because how IRS treats housekeepers is irrational.
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Old 09-24-2014, 07:21 AM
 
Location: Bothell, Washington
2,701 posts, read 4,671,006 times
Reputation: 3676
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoopLV View Post
Yes, it is.

You are receiving the service and not paying for it. The reason the employer isn't paying for it is he has hired a bunch of lobbyists to shovel money at Congress to keep minimum wages stuck in the 1980s. The employer isn't going to pay a living wage because customers click on the cheapest hotel (and airplane ticket) online. The market has spoken.

I leave the DND sign on my door until I leave and then tip on the last day. The housekeeper doesn't have to clean my room for most of the time I am there. That's less time they have to worry about me, and more time for the other rooms. Some of which look like a group of orangutans had a battle last night.

It has been my experience that housekeepers are also quite happy to give me towels from their cart when I see them wheeling it down the hall. I drop old towels into their "bag of linen" and I get fresh towels. Works for me.

When people accept a service that is traditionally done for tips, they should tip. I've been tipping housekeepers my entire life. This is not a new practice. When people stiff a service worker, the service worker is usually still on the hook for income taxes (the IRS has really cracked down on tipped workers), but they didn't actually receive the income. That's like picking their pocket. And I'm not going to steal from someone who makes 1/10th my wages. I don't need that kind of karma hit.
Sorry, but there is no service we are receiving at a hotel without paying for it. We pay the price for the room, which includes the expectation that the room will be clean. If it's not, we as customers will not go back to that hotel, bringing business elsewhere. The people who clean the rooms get paid a wage- if that's not enough, that is for the staff to fight the hotel on in order to raise that wage.

Tips, to me, are something you give for extraordinary service- when someone goes way above and beyond the actual requirements of their job. Why should someone get a tip for just simply doing the duties their job requires and that they get paid to do? For most of us we are required to do what our job requires, if we don't we could get fired- yes even those of us who don't make much money.
And if we are going to start tipping anyone who does service work, where does it end? My wife is a bank teller, helping customers all day long- should she be getting tips? I do IT Helpdesk, helping people with computer problems all day long- nobody tips me, maybe I should be getting tips, too!
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Old 09-24-2014, 07:25 AM
 
Location: Ubique
4,148 posts, read 3,160,198 times
Reputation: 2634
Quote:
Originally Posted by blktoptrvl View Post
...tipping (should be) abolished...
Why? What's wrong with tipping? What's wrong with me, at my free will, taking the liberty and leaving a $ 3 tip for the housekeeper if I wanted to? And what's wrong with the housekeeper, at his/her free will accepting these three bucks?

I am assuming that you meant Congress should pass a law abolishing tips. And Executive Branch needs to enforce that law. And that Judicial needs to adjudicate if and when the law is violated.

Ok, let's think this through. Who says that via the Constitution we have delegated to Congress the power to take my tipping liberty away? Pls cite the Article where Constitution grants Congress this power.

Let's assume this new Law passed the Constitutional test. Then how is the Executive Branch supposed to enforce it? I mean there are two ways how Govt finds out if a I leave a tip. 1- Housekeeper reports it, against her / his own financial gain. 2- Govt monitors each hotel room, either through cameras or by agents. Of course this will raise all kinds of privacy issues.

Thirdly, if Govt found out that I left a $ 3 tip, how can the Govt prove that I meant to leave a tip, and just didn't simply forgot three bucks on the hotel's dresser?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ovi8 View Post
We're being scammed, plain and simple.
Are you not a human being that can think for yourself, and that you shouldn't fall for that $ 5 overcharge scam, if that's what it is?
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Old 09-24-2014, 07:28 AM
 
14,260 posts, read 23,991,339 times
Reputation: 20072
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry10 View Post
Ok, that's fine, regardless that your brief explanation of rules (which may or may not be correct) just gave me a headache.

But since I love equality of treatment, and since I am supposed to know IRS tax Rules for housekeepers -- since I pay thousands of payees every year, then am I supposed to research and comprehend tax implications of each of these payments I make? If not, then why only housekeepers?

So, the idea that I must tip because how IRS treats housekeepers is irrational.

If you are paying TIPPED employees, you better know ALL the regulations that affect tipped employees. You can bet that the IRS Revenue Agent that is auditing your business will certainly.

A former employer (who will remain anonymous) failed to understand certain overtime rules as well as the proper accounting for employee meals and was assessed significant back taxes and penalties.

CURRENTLY, most housekeepers do NOT fall under tipped employees status and are treated like standard employees. If that should change due to Marriott's actions, that will add a great deal of complexity to the mix.

If you think TIPPED employees accounting is bad, try dealing with executive compensation with the IRS and SEC.
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Old 09-24-2014, 07:47 AM
 
Location: Ubique
4,148 posts, read 3,160,198 times
Reputation: 2634
Quote:
Originally Posted by jm31828 View Post
Sorry, but there is no service we are receiving at a hotel without paying for it. We pay the price for the room, which includes the expectation that the room will be clean. If it's not, we as customers will not go back to that hotel, bringing business elsewhere. The people who clean the rooms get paid a wage- if that's not enough, that is for the staff to fight the hotel on in order to raise that wage.

Tips, to me, are something you give for extraordinary service- when someone goes way above and beyond the actual requirements of their job. Why should someone get a tip for just simply doing the duties their job requires and that they get paid to do? For most of us we are required to do what our job requires, if we don't we could get fired- yes even those of us who don't make much money.
And if we are going to start tipping anyone who does service work, where does it end? My wife is a bank teller, helping customers all day long- should she be getting tips? I do IT Helpdesk, helping people with computer problems all day long- nobody tips me, maybe I should be getting tips, too!
Excellent post. You are correct that it is ultimately us, consumers providing jobs to the housekeepers. If we weren't patronizing the hotels, housekeepers wouldn't have a job to begin with, a job that feeds their families, a job they have taken on at their free will, instead of another menial job, like stocking shelves at supermarkets, or flipping burgers at McDonalds, or wherever.

I tip housekeepers if I find the room in immaculate condition when I check in. But I don't know why I tip them and not other service workers.

There are several service-type jobs where tips are customary, and I have no idea why, and don't want to even know.
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Old 09-24-2014, 07:49 AM
 
Location: Ubique
4,148 posts, read 3,160,198 times
Reputation: 2634
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlawrence01 View Post
If you are paying TIPPED employees, you better know ALL the regulations that affect tipped employees.
The point wasn't if the TIPPED employees should know. The point was that TIPPERS should as well.
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Old 09-24-2014, 08:32 AM
 
Location: SC
8,791 posts, read 5,657,462 times
Reputation: 12805
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry10 View Post
Why? What's wrong with tipping?...
I already said why in my original post. Did you not understand what I was saying?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry10 View Post
I am assuming that you meant Congress should pass a law abolishing tips. And Executive Branch needs to enforce that law. And that Judicial needs to adjudicate if and when the law is violated.

Ok, let's think this through. Who says that via the Constitution we have delegated to Congress the power to take my tipping liberty away? Pls cite the Article where Constitution grants Congress this power.

Let's assume this new Law passed the Constitutional test. Then how is the Executive Branch supposed to enforce it? I mean there are two ways how Govt finds out if a I leave a tip. 1- Housekeeper reports it, against her / his own financial gain. 2- Govt monitors each hotel room, either through cameras or by agents. Of course this will raise all kinds of privacy issues.

Thirdly, if Govt found out that I left a $ 3 tip, how can the Govt prove that I meant to leave a tip, and just didn't simply forgot three bucks on the hotel's dresser?
Assume, what you want. Usually when assuming, people are wrong. In this case, you are dead wrong. Remember! When you make and assumption, you are making an azz out of U and umption!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry10 View Post
Are you not a human being that can think for yourself, and that you shouldn't fall for that $ 5 overcharge scam, if that's what it is?
Yes. I can, and I have. Are you not capable of realizing that everyone is entitled to their own thoughts and opinions and that your umbrage - not matter how contrived makes your opinions no more valid than anyone else's?

Last edited by blktoptrvl; 09-24-2014 at 08:42 AM..
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Old 09-24-2014, 10:11 AM
 
Location: Sunrise
10,868 posts, read 14,247,091 times
Reputation: 9011
Quote:
Originally Posted by jm31828 View Post
My wife is a bank teller, helping customers all day long- should she be getting tips? I do IT Helpdesk, helping people with computer problems all day long- nobody tips me, maybe I should be getting tips, too!
The difference is that there are no lobbyists on K-Street shoveling money at Congress to keep the wages for you and your wife at $7.50 per hour, plus tips. The IRS is not taking a percentage of every transaction that you make, or money off the top of each workday, because of your culturally-ingrained compensation system.

It's fine to debate the merits of paying people a fair wage vs. our current ridiculous system of gratuities. But it is not fine to say, "I disagree with the premise of gratuities, therefore I never give anyone a gratuity. They can suck it."

I repeat: I do not need the kind of karma hit associated with stiffing a server who makes $2.33 an hour, or a housekeeper who makes $7.50 per hour. And while I agree that it falls upon their employers to make it right, their employers are shoveling money at Congress to keep it wrong. Until that ends, I'm tipping the people who need it. And I'm not going to gripe about it.
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