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Old 10-10-2014, 06:55 PM
 
3,558 posts, read 4,596,089 times
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There is a group of attorneys, The Intermountain something-or-other, that goes around looking for, mainly landlords, who violate the ADA with regards to service animals. None of them are actually looking for a house to rent; they're looking for a lawsuit, which can brought on by the mere fact that a landlord over stepped their bounds by requiring proof, or whatever, that the dog is a service animal.

When I was looking for a house to rent, I was talking to a receptionist at a property management because I have a large dog. She asked me if my dog was a service animal and I said no. She told me during the conversation that they require a letter from the tenant's doctor stating that the dog is a service animal. I told her that they are in violation of federal law by not limiting themselves to the two allowed questions and there are attorneys that prey upon that. Her response was that I didn't know what I was talking about and they require the letter anyway.

Not my problem, I guess.
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Old 10-10-2014, 07:21 PM
 
Location: SW Florida
9,751 posts, read 7,030,085 times
Reputation: 14250
Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
Yeah, I have had dogs all my life. I have one now who obeys me instantly with a mere look. INSTANTLY.
But I'd have to be looney toons to claim I had "control" of any other living creature at any time.
It's a cute law, but one absolutely silly and without teeth (pun intended).
Animal lover you may be, compelled to argue the canine equivalent of the parent's disclaimer for a spoiled undisciplined child of "kids will be kids". But seriously, perhaps some insight into the training involved in making a dog with the aptitude into a true service dog might make you realize how silly your comment really is. The training involves both the dog and his prospective owner, and any dog who can't/won't listen to commands, or is found to be too highstrung or nervous to remain calm and under the control of his owner when he's "working" is eliminated from the training program and will not become a service dog. Because, after all, the life of his owner may depend such control and discipline on the part of the dog.

Last I checked, dogs who habitually bite others or are otherwise aggressive towards people they don't know, or which won't listen to owners' commands cannot function as service dogs, and while this may be normal behavior for dogs in the wild, it's not acceptable behavior on the part of pet dogs either. And when you consider police dogs who work with their officer handlers, can you imagine the scenario if such a dog was not under the control of the officer, did not obey the officer's commands?

And while I might admit that answering the call of nature anywhere he sees fit might be in the nature of a wild dog, or even a pet that spends all his time outdoors, it should be obvious that an un-housebroken dog
would be unacceptable either as a service dog, or a pet who spends any time at all indoors.

Perhaps your objection is to the word "control"?
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Old 10-10-2014, 08:19 PM
 
Location: Texas
43,552 posts, read 52,647,623 times
Reputation: 70801
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelassie View Post
Animal lover you may be, compelled to argue the canine equivalent of the parent's disclaimer for a spoiled undisciplined child of "kids will be kids". But seriously, perhaps some insight into the training involved in making a dog with the aptitude into a true service dog might make you realize how silly your comment really is. The training involves both the dog and his prospective owner, and any dog who can't/won't listen to commands, or is found to be too highstrung or nervous to remain calm and under the control of his owner when he's "working" is eliminated from the training program and will not become a service dog. Because, after all, the life of his owner may depend such control and discipline on the part of the dog.

Last I checked, dogs who habitually bite others or are otherwise aggressive towards people they don't know, or which won't listen to owners' commands cannot function as service dogs, and while this may be normal behavior for dogs in the wild, it's not acceptable behavior on the part of pet dogs either. And when you consider police dogs who work with their officer handlers, can you imagine the scenario if such a dog was not under the control of the officer, did not obey the officer's commands?

And while I might admit that answering the call of nature anywhere he sees fit might be in the nature of a wild dog, or even a pet that spends all his time outdoors, it should be obvious that an un-housebroken dog
would be unacceptable either as a service dog, or a pet who spends any time at all indoors.

Perhaps your objection is to the word "control"?
You can't be serious.

OF COURSE my objection is to the word *control*.
It is my whole point.

No matter how well-trained an animal is, you would be nuts to believe you ever truly have 100% control.
The police dogs and dogs for the blind I have worked with are amazing... but thinking you have 100% control of anything is pure hubris.
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Old 10-10-2014, 09:51 PM
 
9,262 posts, read 11,820,013 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Everdeen View Post
She told me during the conversation that they require a letter from the tenant's doctor stating that the dog is a service animal. I told her that they are in violation of federal law by not limiting themselves to the two allowed questions and there are attorneys that prey upon that. Her response was that I didn't know what I was talking about and they require the letter anyway.
The property manager is correct.

Rental housing (non governement housing) is not covered by the ADA it's covered by the Fair Housing Act. As such, when a tenant requests a "reasonable accommodation" for a service animal in the rental, the rules allow a landlord to request certain types of proof and/or documentation. Note that under the FHA, to have a service animal in their unit, a request to accomodate the service animal must be made. All they have is the right to request that reasonable accommodation and the right to expect the landlord to grant that reasonable accommodation. A landlord after proper review must grant the reasonable accommodation unless they meet the test where the accommodation is not considered reasonable. If a request is unreasonable under the law, they can deny access to the service animal for that tenant.
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Old 10-11-2014, 03:07 AM
 
1,097 posts, read 715,465 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlightAttendant View Post
Welcome to all who have true service animals.
True service animals are pretty darned obvious. They're sturdy as workhorses and have mean-ass metal braces on them for the blind to hold on to.

"Fifi" is not a service animal.
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Old 10-11-2014, 03:53 AM
 
Location: Bel Air, California
21,318 posts, read 21,881,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenD View Post
No, they absolutely do not. Not legally. Read the ADA bulletin I posted.



Sorry, but people are beginning to catch on to this scam, and are starting to bust the fakers. It isn't about being well behaved or not. I've seen people asked to leave a restaurant because they had a dog that was clearly not an ADA Service dog.



Those who don't understand the issues they cause for people who are genuinely disabled deserve to get tickets with the same fines as those who park in Handicapped Parking spaces. Say, $500. That might help people get their heads straight about this problem. Service animals are not pets. Pets are not service animals.



Like I said... that scam worked before people caught on. And be clear, it is a scam. But now, as more and more people recognize it as a scam, you can also expect more people to be busted for it.
the problem is that some people, like the one you responded to, think the rules that most everyone else follows don't pertain to their own selfish needs
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Old 10-11-2014, 07:30 AM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ > Raleigh, NC
15,068 posts, read 19,002,971 times
Reputation: 24167
Quote:
Originally Posted by ApePeeD View Post
True service animals are pretty darned obvious. They're sturdy as workhorses and have mean-ass metal braces on them for the blind to hold on to.

"Fifi" is not a service animal.
Though I agree with you about Fifi, please be aware that not ALL true service dogs are trained to guide blind people. Service dogs can and do perform necessary tasks for many disabilities including folks that are deaf, wheelchair bound, bedridden, missing limbs, etc. Some dogs are trained to warn of oncoming epileptic seuzures. Others provide significant life changing assistance to those with PTSD, anxiety and other psychiatric disorders.

It's that last category that has caused the current problems of abusing the ADA and Fair Housing rules. Personally, I wish that a card would be issued to identify the REAL Working Dogs. And a medal for what they do for their handlers.
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Old 10-11-2014, 11:18 AM
 
26,590 posts, read 54,583,712 times
Reputation: 13019
Quote:
Originally Posted by ApePeeD View Post
True service animals are pretty darned obvious. They're sturdy as workhorses and have mean-ass metal braces on them for the blind to hold on to.

"Fifi" is not a service animal.
You are wrong. Service animals are not only for the visually impaired. They can also assist mobility challenged and even warns of an impending seizure or diabetic issue. Often the latter are smaller dogs, not the typical Lab or Shepard that serve as guide dogs.
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Old 10-11-2014, 11:22 AM
 
235 posts, read 239,681 times
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The problem is anything and everything can be declared a service animal as long as the person has a note from their doctor. It doesn't matter if the dog is actually professionally trained or not. I was in Wal-Mart once where a woman had her Yorkie in the cart and was arguing with the store manager claiming it was a service dog. He had no choice but to let her have the dog in the store. I see the woman in the produce department where she puts the dog on the floor and it takes a **** right in front of a vegetable bin. Service dog my a**. A properly trained dog wouldn't do that.
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Old 10-11-2014, 03:16 PM
 
Location: A tropical island
4,566 posts, read 4,435,043 times
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I was discussing his very thread on the phone with my husband this morning. He is currently working in a different state for a while, so if I fly out to visit him, I either have to arrange doggie-sitting, or pay the dog-under-my-airplane-seat fee. He jokingly (completely jokingly!) said that I should buy a little service vest for Lily and save him some money on my next flight....because if enough people keep abusing the system, maybe the law will finally change. I jokingly replied that, yes, I would be cheating for the greater good, to help end the corruption.

(But of course I'll do the honest thing and pay my $125 each way doggie fee.)
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