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I've never understood why people have such an aversion to the idea of just flying into a capital, with no advance bookings, and just have a taxi take them to a modest class hotel and check in, and then find places to go and things to see on local transportation.
There are people living in all those countries who are lower middle class, and they travel all the time at a small fraction of what foreign tourists pay for a tour package. Every town with more than a few thousand people has a safe and decent hotel with vacancies, and there are local restaurants all up and down the street.
If there is a chip in the formica in the table top in your hotel room, just grit your teeth and bear it and think of the $100 you just saved. Which altogether add up to most of that $10K.
People like to plan. It would drive me crazy to arrive in a foreign country without a place to stay. I don't even travel to the next state over without advance bookings. The same goes for plane tickets. I want it all figured out months in advance so I don't end up running around trying to piece together a vacation the night before, flying separately from my wife at 3:00 AM, etc.
If you get there and they're booked up, or you find out it's a miserable hotel that had terrible reviews (that you didn't check), what do you do? I'd rather not have stress on vacation.
Honestly, the original cost estimate didn't seem that horrendous to me. You probably could reduce it to $7500-$8000 or so, but not much less than that.
It really depends on where you are flying from. If your only choice is a terminal airport 200 miles from any sort of a larger regional airport, you are going to have to spend $200-400 extra in airfare per person just to get to the gateway. Not everyone lives near a hub or even a larger regional airport. (by the way, I spent $1200 per ticket in taxes and security fees alone to London next month from the east coast of the US)
Sure. I agree with you. But on average, it does not cost $1500 to fly to Europe no matter where you fly from.
I am sure there are people who may even have to drive 200 miles before they get to a small airport. But that's not the point is it? We are talking about average costs. A last minute ticket to London for $5000 is irrelevant to this discussion.
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Not everyone has the time or even wants to do research. You will be hard pressed to find a nice hotel in Rome in peak season for $100. More like $200 unless you want to be well outside of walking distance to major sites. When traveling, time is money, and I wouldn't want to spend an hour each day "commuting" to save $50. There are many other reasons people choose certain hotels, including loyalty point accumulation, non-smoking guarantees, and the availability of US king sized beds. We visited Athens during all the problems in 2012, and purposely booked the Hilton rather than the Grande Bretagne to be further away from problem areas and because we knew the Greeks didn't have an issue with the Americans and would be far less likely to "attack" the Hilton.
I dont know if a lot of people go to Europe without doing any research. It just doesn't make a lot of sense. How can one have no time for research but have time to book everything and plan a trip?
Minimal research using a travel guide or a website like tripadvisor can go a long way.
I went to Rome in the peak season and found really nice hotels around Termini. The average cost was around $100 (and even lower for smaller hotels). It probably takes 10-15 mins to get to most parts of Rome from termini
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If you don't rent a flat with cooking facilities, I'm not sure how you can avoid eating out every night, unless you wish to eat PB&J sandwiches in your hotel room...
In France and Italy you dont have to spend $70 at a restaurant every night. You can always get takeout. Pizza in Italy perhaps?
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I have a two week trip to London coming up, and will spend $800 or more on admissions to various museums and cultural/historic sites. No tours, just basic admissions.
That's possible.
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As far as "local" and regional transportation, I can see that type of spend. You need to get from the airport to the hotel, then the hotel to the sites you are visiting each day, then the train between cities. The Leonardo Express from FCO to Termini is $16 per person, and then you'd need to transfer to a bus or metro or cab. It will cost $40 for two just to get to your hotel before you visit a single museum or cafe. Some people don't want to book train tickets that far in advance, as they are waiting on the availability of something they really want to see or do.
One other thing to note--in many cities people want to see a cultural performance. An opera in Italy, West End theater show in London, etc. While you can sometimes take the chances on something you'd like to see being available as "last minute half price tickets" it is a chance you take, and if there's something you really want to see, you need to book those tickets in advance--and expect to spend $150+ to do so.
You are just looking at the worst case scenario of booking bus and train tickets. Fact is that taking the train around Italy is not as expensive as the OP's estimates.
I've never understood why people have such an aversion to the idea of just flying into a capital, with no advance bookings, and just have a taxi take them to a modest class hotel and check in, and then find places to go and things to see on local transportation.
Some Americans are too hampered by their lack of confidence and perceptions -- poor languages skills, lack of trust of all those foreigners, probably will be kidnapped by the taxi driver, hotel will have bed bugs, we'll get sick on the food, can't drink the water, everyone wants my money, can't figure out the exchange rate, etc., etc. I've seen those folks and wonder why they even want to travel in the first place...they can't be enjoying it.
I don't find the airfare necessarily to be that off. It depends on when you go and where you fly out of. I don't live near a major airport. Flying out of regional airports can be very expensive...especially if you want a flight that doesn't have a bunch of connecting flights or long layovers. While I am barely middle class, I am willing to pay a little more to have a quicker flight. Airlines are getting more restrictive with earning and using miles so it is really not an option for everyone. I randomly put June days into Kayak. For me to fly to Rome roundtrip, the cheapest flights were $1235 (2 layovers) or $1475 (1 layover).
Sure. I agree with you. But on average, it does not cost $1500 to fly to Europe no matter where you fly from.
I disagree. Yes, you might be able to fly steerage on a discount airline to some random out of the way city on a special sale fare that requires flying mid-week at an odd hour in the off-season, but from the major US east coast gateway cities (EWR, JFK, PHL, ATL, MIA, BOS), the average cost for an economy ticket that includes one checked bag to a major Euro tourism airport (FCO, FRA, CDG, BRU, TXL, ATH, MAD, etc.) in shoulder to peak season is going to be around $1000 these days. Like it or not, some people have no choice but to travel during peak times due to work or school commitments.
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I am sure there are people who may even have to drive 200 miles before they get to a small airport. But that's not the point is it? We are talking about average costs. A last minute ticket to London for $5000 is irrelevant to this discussion.
It is the point. That will likely add $200-700 onto the fare. Last minute tickets aren't the point. I put in some sample dates flying PSC to FCO, JFK to FCO, LAX to FCO, ERI to FCO, and PHL to FCO, and the fares were always $200-700 cheaper out of the major east coast airports for the same dates of travel
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I dont know if a lot of people go to Europe without doing any research. It just doesn't make a lot of sense. How can one have no time for research but have time to book everything and plan a trip?
Some people have a travel agent (who is just an order taker) book airfare and hotel, and that's the end of it. I agree, most people would do some research, but some people would also learn how to turn on the oven before baking a cake.
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Minimal research using a travel guide or a website like tripadvisor can go a long way.
You're preaching to the choir, but not everyone has common sense. I was on a Euro cruise a few years back with some people who had their airfare and the hotel the night before the cruise booked by the cruise line, but otherwise had done zero research. They landed at the airport and took a cab from FCO to the hotel near Termini. They were complaining about how much it cost, and I asked why they hadn't taken the train. They said they didn't know there was one.
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I went to Rome in the peak season and found really nice hotels around Termini. The average cost was around $100 (and even lower for smaller hotels). It probably takes 10-15 mins to get to most parts of Rome from termini
I've stayed at a luxury hotel near there--I wouldn't choose to stay there again, too expensive. That said, I also know that there is no hotel in Rome that my husband and I are going to be happy with at $100 a night. That's our choice, and more expensive properties fit our budget. I think the next time we go there we'll probably rent a flat.
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In France and Italy you dont have to spend $70 at a restaurant every night. You can always get takeout. Pizza in Italy perhaps?
I love pizza in Rome as much as the next person, but I don't want to eat it every day. My body needs protein, and not the type that comes from a bit of meat on top of a pie.
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That's possible.
Not "possible," fact.
You are just looking at the worst case scenario of booking bus and train tickets. Fact is that taking the train around Italy is not as expensive as the OP's estimates.[/quote]
I agree that the $1500 is probably high, but I can definitely see it--particularly if they wait until the last minute or want first class seats. If they haven't planned anything else, why would they plan their ground transportation?
Sure. I agree with you. But on average, it does not cost $1500 to fly to Europe no matter where you fly from.
You haven't priced flights for July/August this year have you? Yes, you can go a little less than that by routing through Oslo, Istanbul, or Iceland, rovide you can easily get to one of those airlines' right USA gateway cities, but then you'll generally need to add a second ticket to your final destination (always a bit of a risk) and by the time you add that cost in and possibly lose a vacation day on the longer routing ,it's not always a great deal. I just did a Matrix search from my home airport (VPS) to Dublin, typically one of the more budget-friendly airports in Europe for July, and cheapest fare I could find was $1422. ATL-DUB nonstop which would require a six hour drive one way and a night or two in a hotel, was about $50 cheaper than that for about 6 of 30 days that, month with the remainder more than $1500. Gotta love the lack of competition in the US market these days.
My nearest actually competitive airport is New Orleans, and MSY-DUB can be found for $1271, but the idea of leaving a car I'm fond of in long term parking in New Orleans gives me the vapors, and would require a hotel (add $100-$200 back in additional expenses) on the way home because we're just not driving four hours on mostly interstate just after a transatlantic flight when we're both zombies from a reflexes standpoint.
I disagree. Yes, you might be able to fly steerage on a discount airline to some random out of the way city on a special sale fare that requires flying mid-week at an odd hour in the off-season, but from the major US east coast gateway cities (EWR, JFK, PHL, ATL, MIA, BOS), the average cost for an economy ticket that includes one checked bag to a major Euro tourism airport (FCO, FRA, CDG, BRU, TXL, ATH, MAD, etc.) in shoulder to peak season is going to be around $1000 these days. Like it or not, some people have no choice but to travel during peak times due to work or school commitments.
This isn't true, you just have to be on the lookout for airline deals, My sister and I recently took advantage of a fare deal from JFK to Milan for $400 dollars each on Emirates Airline. The only caveats were that the trip had to start no later than May 10 and be completed by May 30th and you had to buy 2 tickets. This includes 2 checked bags and we're flying out on a Thursday night and getting back on a Monday evening. This wasn't even a mistake fare that you had to book in 20 minutes or you were out of luck. Even factoring in the cost of getting to JFK from the DC area, we are way under your estimate. The key is getting informed about the deals that are out there and being ready to take advantage and sometimes you are even given time to think about it, this deal was available for about 5 days and you were able to cancel your tickets for a full refund within 24 hours, plenty of time to arrange your schedule.
This isn't true, you just have to be on the lookout for airline deals, My sister and I recently took advantage of a fare deal from JFK to Milan for $400 dollars each on Emirates Airline. The only caveats were that the trip had to start no later than May 10 and be completed by May 30th and you had to buy 2 tickets. This includes 2 checked bags and we're flying out on a Thursday night and getting back on a Monday evening. This wasn't even a mistake fare that you had to book in 20 minutes or you were out of luck. Even factoring in the cost of getting to JFK from the DC area, we are way under your estimate. The key is getting informed about the deals that are out there and being ready to take advantage and sometimes you are even given time to think about it, this deal was available for about 5 days and you were able to cancel your tickets for a full refund within 24 hours, plenty of time to arrange your schedule.
You assume that people can travel at any time they choose. As I stated earlier, some people are restricted to certain weeks or months that are peak travel times. Some people can only take one week increments beginning Friday at 5:00 pm and ending Monday at 8:00 am. They can't leave a little early or come in late.
Some people don't have the ability to be by a computer 24/7 to book when deals like that come up.
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