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Old 06-19-2015, 04:04 PM
 
Location: New York Area
15,983 posts, read 6,296,258 times
Reputation: 12418

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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
It turns out that was some long lines in the security checks, and the UA simply was waiting for those passengers.
I have posted elsewhere about the ills occasioned by cumbersome security that protects no one (link). This proves my point. How many bombers do you think were caught while many people were inconvenienced or faced uncompensated expenses? Excerpts below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
This post is occasioned by innocuous events of the last several weeks that points to some glaring problems, all involving over-regulation. These rules and procedures are costly, inefficient and provide few benefits.
  1. Not reproduced
  2. Not reproduced
  3. Not reproduced
  4. Security at airports - We have made air travel cumbersome. Thus, for example, I am planning to travel to Washington, DC a few weeks from now from the New York City area. Train travel is ridiculously expensive for a trip of about 5 hours. If I take a plane, back in the day it was a shuttle that was about a one hour flight. Now, adding security time at airport, it's 3 hours. Maybe I'll just drive. Heck, gas is cheap these days. Imagine the financial impact this must be having on the air industry? It would make far more sense to do spot checking, behavioral profiling, and the random use of sky marshals. But hey, it's racist to target people at war with us.
All of these rules, and more that other think of, are annoying at best. At worst, they detract from productivity and waste valuable time and resources.
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Old 06-19-2015, 04:04 PM
 
8,984 posts, read 8,130,554 times
Reputation: 19505
Quote:
But it was stupid for the airline to pretend to be "on time" when boarding already started, and even after I was seated and waited for 10 minutes, the FA told me the plane was delayed for only 15 minutes, and they were going to catch up during the flight.

Then the take off was 40 minutes late, and landing was a whole hour late.
The airline may have been correct that loading the 20 passengers would only cause a 15 minute delay. But then things happened that made it 40 minutes late. Lets look at the possibilities.

1: Getting tower approval to enter the take off area to take off. There may now be 15 planes ahead of yours, and they all have to depart before yours has the use of the runway. They have to slot you in.

2: The air space your plane is to fly through, is controlled like a major street, and your flight has to be able to enter the airspace. It may have to clear some planes, before you can enter the air space.

3: The airport you are flying to if it is a busy airport, may not have any available slots to put your incoming flight in for half an hour. To save fuel, the plane will wait to depart, until they can be slotted in for a landing as just flying a circular pattern to wait for their opening for half an hour would be stupid.

4: Your departure was 40 minutes late, but it was late by a whole hour for landing. The flight attendants had said they would be able to pick up 15 minutes in flight time. They were going by what information was available at the time. There may have been an emergency and a plane had to be moved ahead of others for an emergency landing. This alone would have thrown the landing schedule all out of kilter, forcing your plane to have to kill time instead of picking it up.

5: A heavy storm may have come up between your take off and landing airports. They had to fly around it for safety, so it took longer than scheduled for the flight.

Weather can change things. After I got out of the Navy in 1954, I took up flying as a hobby. One day I flew from Rohnerville Ca, to Redding Ca. in a Piper Super Cruiser. I had a 20 mile tail wind flying over. They told me to go to 1,000 feet higher going back, and I would only have a 10 mile an hour headwind to reduce my indicated air speed by 10 miles an hour. I was flying VFR which means flying from one prominent ground feature such as the top of one of the mountains I was going over to the next one. Suddenly I was lost, and had no idea of where I was. It was late afternoon. All I could do was follow the compass and keep going west. I was flying over what is the most unfriendly place to fly in case there is trouble. Heavy timber and steep up and down terrain. When I hit the ocean, I would be able to figure out where I was and get home.

I went over the tiny berg of Bridgeville. I knew instantly where I was, and just lowered the nose and started losing altitude gradual as I was right on track for home. Historic note, Bridgeville was the first town sold on the Internet. Another historic note, Rohnerville airport was built on top of the cliff where the Wright Brothers as teens, flew their gliders off the hill to learn more about flight.

The plane I was flying was a Piper Super Cruiser which was a 3 passenger light plane, especially good for short take off and landings and landing where there are no airports. It flew at 105 MPH, and going over with a 20 mile an hour tail wind, I was actually flying at 125 MPH. Going back with the predicted 10 MPH headwind, I would be actually travelling at 95 miles an hour. What was unknown was the wind had shifted, and I was flying with a strong tailwind. When I landed we computed my actual ground speed at 180 miles an hour. When I called to clear my flight plan, I told them about the wind change. I was the second pilot that reported it. The other plane was flying my original flight, and almost ran out of fuel, it took them so long to make the trip flying into that 85 mile an hour head wind when they expected a 20 mile an hour tail wind.

I am telling you about this, as weather can change the speed and flight time considerable even for a large jet airliner.

OP, you are angry because you were slightly inconvenienced, but the airline has to think about all their passengers, and do what is best for everyone. If those 20 late arriving people had to be worked into the schedule if they had just left them behind, may have caused them It could cause those 20 people to have to lay over for a day or even longer. Have to put them on a bus to get them out of the area as no place to give them seats on another plane. And the list can get worse and worse. As 20 people all showed up together, it is a very sure sign there was a problem somewhere, and they were late due to no problem of their own. You were slightly inconvenienced, but they had apparently been inconvenienced already and steps were taken to reduce the inconvenience to everyone in the only way possible.

You are the inconsiderate one, expecting to be able to get you to your destination on time, you did not care how much it inconvenienced others.
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Old 06-19-2015, 10:09 PM
 
468 posts, read 519,150 times
Reputation: 517
I once worked with a former flight attendant who swore up and down the pike, the majority of “weather related delays” in what looks like fine weather, are universally “fibs designed to cover up the need to deadhead some crew member”.

I feel your pain though, OP. I once showed up well on time for a small local jaunt within my same state, only to find it canceled and the (JFK) flight kiosk not permitting any type of rebooking. After complaining to the airline staff, part of whose excuse involved them blithely saying that they live in the same borough of NYC and it should be no problem for me just to jaunt home and come back another day – yeah, I bet they don’t do it with luggage at the cost of a $50 cab ride one way - that's $200 in cab fare just to make ONE trip - they finally booked me in the latest flight due to arrive at that destination, some 10 hours later. (And come to think of it, I think this was United.)

Well, I waited in the terminal those 10 hours, only to discover that the flight would never take off, because the crew was going into overtime. (This trip actually involved, at one point, us being ferried between terminals and in a circle past the plane which would have been ours, erstwhile passengers making sad begging faces at the crew members, whom we could full well see.) I wound up eventually carpooling out with some similarly distraught folks, one of whom swore that my severely rescheduled flight was his originally scheduled flight, and that he had been given no warning of “weather related delays” by the airline as he tooled down the highway in his cab 2 hours before takeoff. (In the interim ten hours, I grant that there had been time for spectacular black-headed thunderclouds and tearing storms to arrive, and this person had for-sure solicited the real time input of his airline staff, all of whom swore “oh no, sir, there’s no sign or indication this flight won’t take off.”)

Of course, I’ve also had heinous multi-hour delays making the same in-state trip on trains and automobiles (well, buses), including several hours spent on a freezing cold bus on the shoulder of the road not far away from the Delaware Water Gap, and the Amtrak traveling backwards for a zesty interlude between Rochester and Albany...
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Old 06-20-2015, 05:52 AM
 
Location: coastlines
372 posts, read 410,388 times
Reputation: 975
The question is, even knowing 20 passengers were stuck at security, how could the airline punish those who are on time by keeping them waiting for those who are late, and therefore making so many miss their next flight? Is that a standard practice? Shouldn't those who were held up at security face the stress and risk of trip interruption, instead of sacrificing those who were actually early? I don't get and I am still trying to decide whether I would file a complaint. I was put on standby and luckily I got in. What if I hadn't? My entire trip would have needed to be cancelled because it would not make sense to go any more.[/quote]



You're questions are those of justice, and not convenience--for the airline.

You can complain if it makes you feel better, but nothing will happen.

United is running a business, and facilitates what is best for the airline--not it's customer.

Scattered people making connections are less relevant to them, than many who would have to be re-booked.

I've flown United for over 40 years, mostly at premier status.

They remain my airline of choice, but many frequent flyers have jumped ship.

I've seen them hold a flight for a vip single person (whom I didn't recognize).

The world of flying--amongst other things-is not fair.

Fortunately--you were able to get on a flight, and hopefully enjoy your vacation, despite the inconvenience
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Old 06-20-2015, 05:09 PM
 
8,984 posts, read 8,130,554 times
Reputation: 19505
Quote:
The question is, even knowing 20 passengers were stuck at security, how could the airline punish those who are on time by keeping them waiting for those who are late, and therefore making so many miss their next flight?
What you do not know the reason those 20 people were late arriving at the loading gate. If those 20 people were just left for later flights and getting out on other planes, it could have put them all way behind any connections they were to make, and far more inconvenienced than those that were at the plane on time. There may not be another plane available to take them on to their destination due to previous booking for 24 to 48 hours.

Quote:
Is that a standard practice? Shouldn't those who were held up at security face the stress and risk of trip interruption, instead of sacrificing those who were actually early?
Have you considered that those 20 people, may have arrived in plenty of time, and due to no fault of theirs, the government closed down letting people through security due to a possible problem, such as finding a box that looked like it could be a bomb which closed the security gate. Later as some of t he news reports on something like this was actually just clothes, etc. that someone had lost. Why should those 20 people in situations like this be told you missed the flight and we will get you out a few at a time over the next 2 days.


Quote:
I don't get and I am still trying to decide whether I would file a complaint. I was put on standby and luckily I got in. What if I hadn't? My entire trip would have needed to be cancelled because it would not make sense to go any more.
[/quote]

But what about those 20 people, who had their trip cancelled if they could not go out on the plane, and were maybe 1,000 miles from home and had to get home. You are only thinking me, me, me. You are not considering what is done to accommodate the most people. In fact, it may have been much more important that those 20 made the flight than you making the flight.

It is very apparent you are young, and still finding out how the world operates. It is time to Grow Up, and realize you are not the only person involved at times like this experience you have just been through. You will have similar situations happen throughout your life.

Filling a complaint, will just be more paper to be taken out in the trash. That is all it is worth at times like this.
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Old 06-21-2015, 10:18 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,663 posts, read 74,356,272 times
Reputation: 36094
Your plane ticket is a unilateral non-negotiated contract between you and the airline. They wrote every word of it -- take it or leave it. They can do whatever they want.

I once flew JFK-MKE and their flights were undersold. So at 5 oclock, the airline announces that they were cancelling the flight, and all passengers would be accommodated on the 7 oclock flight. Take it or leave it. No penalty, only a yawning "We apologize for any inconvenience". But if I had gone to the counter with my ticket and said I wanted to change to the 7 oclock flight, I would have had to pay the airline a huge rebooking penalty. They wrote the contract. They can do whatever they want.
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Old 06-21-2015, 01:47 PM
 
12,973 posts, read 12,814,981 times
Reputation: 5420
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Your plane ticket is a unilateral non-negotiated contract between you and the airline. They wrote every word of it -- take it or leave it. They can do whatever they want.

I once flew JFK-MKE and their flights were undersold. So at 5 oclock, the airline announces that they were cancelling the flight, and all passengers would be accommodated on the 7 oclock flight. Take it or leave it. No penalty, only a yawning "We apologize for any inconvenience". But if I had gone to the counter with my ticket and said I wanted to change to the 7 oclock flight, I would have had to pay the airline a huge rebooking penalty. They wrote the contract. They can do whatever they want.
You hear those stories but that is actually so rare as to be vanishingly small. I would guess I have been on somewhere between 7,000 and 10,000 airplanes and don't know of any single time where that actually happened.

It does not happen because it screws up the system. They end up with equipment and personnel in the wrong place and have to scramble to fix it.

I remember a dark and stormy night when three of us where coming back from Cleveland to Rochesster NY late. We actually turned down an alternate flight and waited for the American one. Turned out to be a horrid decision as we eventually took off at 3AM with the three of us and flight crew the only on board. A super constellation if I remember correctly. Actually ended up in the back of the airplane with a stewardess on a guys lap...virtually the only time I saw that happen. I have seen flight attendants picked up for a later date but that was the only time I ever saw a little action on an actual flight.
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Old 06-22-2015, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Back and Beyond
2,845 posts, read 2,764,977 times
Reputation: 6625
A similar thing just happened to me. Plane was ready at the gate but no one was allowed to board because this two extremely obese old people were waiting on special wheel chairs from a connecting flight and needed to board first. After a 30 minute delay they finally got these special needs people on the plane. As soon as that happened high winds and rain picked up and they decided to know delay the plane indefinitely. I left fairbanks Alaska well over 24 hours ago and now am stuck in Chicago for god knows how long because of these two people. Anyways just wanted to rant. FML.
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Old 06-22-2015, 12:09 PM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,286,480 times
Reputation: 7587
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6.7traveler View Post
A similar thing just happened to me. Plane was ready at the gate but no one was allowed to board because this two extremely obese old people were waiting on special wheel chairs from a connecting flight and needed to board first. After a 30 minute delay they finally got these special needs people on the plane. As soon as that happened high winds and rain picked up and they decided to know delay the plane indefinitely. I left fairbanks Alaska well over 24 hours ago and now am stuck in Chicago for god knows how long because of these two people. Anyways just wanted to rant. FML.
that sucks. I don't think need of certain people should not be place above that of others. Since when extremely obese people are treated better than everyone else?
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Old 06-22-2015, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
7,331 posts, read 4,181,280 times
Reputation: 18400
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
I don't think need of certain people should not be place above that of others.
It's pretty standard to board passengers in wheelchairs first (obese or not), probably because it's much simpler logistically for the airline personnel helping them board if the other seats aren't already crowded with passengers.
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