Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You're saying it doesn't make any difference because it shoots a huge hole in your argument. Tens of millions of people speak Cantonese in mainland China, if you're saying Hong Kong is like a different country because they don't speak Mandarin then people visiting Guangzhou aren't seeing China either.
I know that millions of people speak Cantonese (amongst other languages) in China. I never argued otherwise. My point is that if you juxtapose China and Hong Kong, their respective dominant languages are without a doubt Mandarin in China, and Cantonese in Hong Kong.
Quote:
So you're putting some arbitrary line where passport policies are different enough to be considered a different country. If you're going to focus on the passport you'll note it says they are from Hong Kong, Special Administrative Region of the People's Republic of China.
Never have I said that Hong Kong is a different country, I said it's LIKE a different country, and the fact that there's a different passport and that other countries have a different visa policy for HK passport holders is one of the reasons why I consider so.
Quote:
You're focusing only on a distinction by administrative policies, something that a tourist once they walk pass immigration sees very little of other than their facebook working. From a tourist standpoint Hong Kong seems like China. Chinese food, Chinese people, Chinese characters, Chinese markets, etc. the legal system is not what is going to make an impression on a tourist. They this, and think Chinese:
To be honest these neon signs are distinctive HK characteristics. You can't find them elsewhere. Not in China, not in Taiwan, not in Singapore, only in Hong Kong.
Your argument can be used for so many other pairs of entities/territories. From a tourist standpoint, they'd probably consider that Switzerland and Austria are highly similar as well: German bread, German people, German signs, German markets, Alpine landscape, Alpine lakes, ski resorts etc.
In other words, so what? Hawaii is part of the United States, even if someone is tracking it differently for tourism. Hong Kong is part of China.
If that makes you feel any better, had I gone to Hawaii for a trip, I'd say "I've been to Hawaii" as well, instead of "I've been to USA". This topic is about how other people count visiting a territory as having visited the country, not "if Greenland belongs to Denmark".
I'm very surprised that you've reacted so strongly about this. Botticelli yes, but you, no.
To take this to an absurd level - you are missing the point about missing the point.
By giving the earlier analogy of being able to claim that you've been to X country if you visited X's country's consulate being the same as claiming that you've been to X country because you've visited X country's overseas territories, you showed that you don't understand the significance of overseas territories vs. consulates/embassies/etc. Hence, I broke things down for you. An consulate structure is essentially a piece of real property that is afforded certain diplomatic immunities, whereas a country's overseas territory is, well, an overseas territory of that country, subject to said country's laws, etc. The only way your analogy would make any sense is if an consulate actually was the territory of another country, subject to said country's laws, etc. (but, as I mentioned, the common belief that a consulate/embassy is "foreign soil" is completely without basis in law or reality). So, no, claiming that you've visited, say, the UK because you visited Bermuda is nothing like claiming that you visited the UK because you visited the British Consulate in NYC. Talk about taking something to an absurd level.
I generally follow the immigration rule. If you can get from the mainland to the territory without immigration formalities then yes, other wise no. For instance, as a foreigner, you cannot travel from Hong Kong to China seamlessly but you can travel to Puerto Rico from Florida without restrictions on a domestic flight. In addition Hong Kong has it's own immigration rules independent of Chinese ones... a US traveler can freely go to Hong Kong without a visa but requires a visa to China.
Sint Maarten is not an integral part of the European Netherlands or the Schengen Area. Instead, Sint Maarten has a common visa policy with Aruba, Bonaire, Curaçao, Saba and Sint Eustatius.
Dutch nationals and citizens do not have right of abode in Sint Maarten, however they may visit visa-free for 6 months. EU identity cards are not valid for travel to Sint Maarten; only passports and BES identity cards are accepted for Dutch nationals.
Seems like a separate area to me and not connected well enough to Netherlands to say you have visited the parent country.
So, if you visit Sint Maarten you can say you have visited the Neterland Antilles but definitely can't say you have been to the Netherlands.
So, no, claiming that you've visited, say, the UK because you visited Bermuda is nothing like claiming that you visited the UK because you visited the British Consulate in NYC. Talk about taking something to an absurd level.
I would count a visit to Bermuda as a visit to Bermuda. A visit to the British consulate is a visit to the city in which the consulate is located. A good example is St. Pierre and Miquelon off Newfoundland. It is French territory. If I only went there an not to France or Newfoundland I would say I visited "the French possession St. Pierre and Miquelon."
I know that millions of people speak Cantonese (amongst other languages) in China. I never argued otherwise. My point is that if you juxtapose China and Hong Kong, their respective dominant languages are without a doubt Mandarin in China, and Cantonese in Hong Kong.
You were attempting to distinguish Hong Kong as being like a different country because the dominant dialect is Canto. That is absurd, because by that measure so is Guangzhou. There are many dialects spoken in mainland China, so Mandarin speaking it isn't some barometer of whether a place is China.
Bottom line people in Hong Kong speak Chinese.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic
Never have I said that Hong Kong is a different country, I said it's LIKE a different country, and the fact that there's a different passport and that other countries have a different visa policy for HK passport holders is one of the reasons why I consider so.
This is where we disagree, China is far too big and diverse to try to say HK isn't like it. Beijing isn't like Xian, Guilin isn't like Liaoning, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic
To be honest these neon signs are distinctive HK characteristics. You can't find them elsewhere. Not in China, not in Taiwan, not in Singapore, only in Hong Kong.
Shanghai
Guangzhou
Are you seriously going to say a tourist visiting Hong Kong sees those neon signs in other Chinese cities as different than in Hong Kong?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic
Your argument can be used for so many other pairs of entities/territories. From a tourist standpoint, they'd probably consider that Switzerland and Austria are highly similar as well: German bread, German people, German signs, German markets, Alpine landscape, Alpine lakes, ski resorts etc.
Germany and Switzerland are different countries, Hong Kong is city in China.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic
I'm very surprised that you've reacted so strongly about this. Botticelli yes, but you, no.
I think you're greatly overestimating how strongly I feel about it, we disagree on something and find your arguments to be poor so I'm pointing that out.
Yes. If you visit a territory you visit the county. Doesn't matter what cultural or language differences there are. A territory with a French flag is part of France. British Overseas Territories are part of the U.K. Hong Kong and Macau are China. Guam, USVI, American Samoa, and Puerto Rico are the US. Etc etc etc. French Guyana is as much a part of France as Paris.
Now if I visit the British Virgin Islands. I don't tell people I just returned from the U.K. even though I did, why, because it creates confusion and misunderstanding. Doesn't make it not true.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
