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Actually depending on where you live or are eating 15% is no longer normal. It should be but is not. Now, on your other point, yes the tip should be before taxes: that is how hubby and I normally do it, but our kids think we are cheap or should we say too frugal.
If it is no longer normal that's only because the customers are spoiling the waiters. Yes, we should all respect their service, but 15% is reasonable, and I see no reason this should be increased. Tell me one reason - is it because their services are much improved? Since when the compensation is determined by how much the workers expect?
Your kids? I don't know they old they are - of course it feels nice to be genenous, but it could be counter productive when it is not done right. Do your kids make their own living? Do they have a mortgage and or all the bills to pay? Do they need to save for a down payment?
A lof of kids nowadays spend money like they are the royal family, until they have to face real life.
I feel no shame and no cheapness in paying 15% on pretax bill (rounding up somewhat sometimes). And that's exactly that I am going to do. It is stupid to let social pressure decide what we do.
Here we go again. Server-bashing. Before that gets out of hand, realize that the WHOLE system has to change if we are going to quit tipping servers. I thought it was common knowledge by now that servers in many states only make $2.13 an hour. So they need tips to even make it to minimum wage. This is the fault of our system and the wealthy bureaucrats who make the wage law, allowing restaurants to get away with underpaying.
So do away with tipping and pay the servers a living wage. But nobody wants to do that, do they? I'd like to see some of you server-bashers walk a mile (or 3 or 4 in a large place) in their padded shoes. It's not an easy job, and no, not everyone can do it.
Nobody is bashing servers or suggestion not tipping.
We are saying a 15% tip is reasonable and there is nothing to feel unhappy about. If they are making $2.13 from the restaurants, shouldn't that a business between the server and his employer? How does the customer come into the picture?
Speaking of minimum wage, that's a fantastic idea. For example, if a waiter spends a total of 30 minutes serving me (which is different from the entire time during which I am at the restaurant), then I would be happy to pay him half of the hourly minimum wage, irrespective of the total bill, let it be 50$ or 500$. Do you think that's fair? For example, if minumu wage is 10$, I pay $5 for the 30 minutes service (even if my bill is $120). Fair?
It is not an easy job, but way easier and requires a lot less education and investment than a lot of other jobs.
Servers in the US "expect" a tip for good service because they assume that guests understand that by entering a sit-down restaurant, they are entering into a well-established social contract, that the guests are not cheapskates, and that the guests will not attempt to show their displeasure towards said social contract by stiffing the server, because obviously, this does nothing except stiff the server, not the system.
Obviously, sometimes servers are wrong.
But what are "cheapskates"? How much tipping will make one not a cheapskate? I dont think it is up for the servers to decide, is it.
We all agree we should tip. The diagreement is whether tipping 15% of too cheap nowadays. What's the rationale for servers to expect more than 10 years ago? I need to be convinced.
At some places the server splits the tip with the chef and the bus help. One of my sons works at a couple places. One place he is a server and the tips are split: 10% to the bus boy and the server and chef split the remainder. You don't tip your taking money out of every ones pocket.
We have some relatives that never tip, not ever our son. One evening my son warned his friends that his cousin and her friends were stopping by. Told them that they don't tip, and they never do. No one wanted to serve them. They ended up waiting to get a table.
20% for the total meal though? That is not bad. Around here a few places list suggested tip amounts. I think the standard now is 18%, 20% and 22%.
Many places judge those that come into the place. The help wants tips and if they see something off the ordinary they may not be as excited to help out.
I read a story one time of these four guys that showed up at a very expensive place. The were laughing and having a good time. They were not dressed for that place but since it was early still no one said anything. The servers did not want to have them at their tables. Since it was slow the manager said who ever took the four guys could go home early. One guy figures he can get out of work early that day so he takes the table.
The guys are ordering a lot of food and drinks. The bill is way over $2,000. The server asked them if they are celebrating something. These guys say that they had just completed a multi million dollar merger and were celebrating.
At the end of the meal they leave him a $600 tip. Oh and after he was done helping those guys he tells everyone good buy and leaves for the night. He still got to go home early.
I'd argue that the standard in most large American cities is 20%.
15% is the minimum. As a former server/bartender, I'd find it perfectly acceptable for many cases, not all. For example, there's a reason that an automatic gratuity on parties larger than 6 is 18-20%.
But what are "cheapskates"? How much tipping will make one not a cheapskate? I dont think it is up for the servers to decide, is it.
We all agree we should tip. The diagreement is whether tipping 15% of too cheap nowadays. What's the rationale for servers to expect more than 10 years ago? I need to be convinced.
So you are saying that they should get the same today as 10 years ago. Do you make the same today that you made 10 years ago? 20% has always been the rule of thumb today 10 years ago, or 20 years ago.
At some places the server splits the tip with the chef and the bus help. One of my sons works at a couple places. One place he is a server and the tips are split: 10% to the bus boy and the server and chef split the remainder. You don't tip your taking money out of every ones pocket.
We have some relatives that never tip, not ever our son. One evening my son warned his friends that his cousin and her friends were stopping by. Told them that they don't tip, and they never do. No one wanted to serve them. They ended up waiting to get a table.
20% for the total meal though? That is not bad. Around here a few places list suggested tip amounts. I think the standard now is 18%, 20% and 22%.
Many places judge those that come into the place. The help wants tips and if they see something off the ordinary they may not be as excited to help out.
I read a story one time of these four guys that showed up at a very expensive place. The were laughing and having a good time. They were not dressed for that place but since it was early still no one said anything. The servers did not want to have them at their tables. Since it was slow the manager said who ever took the four guys could go home early. One guy figures he can get out of work early that day so he takes the table.
The guys are ordering a lot of food and drinks. The bill is way over $2,000. The server asked them if they are celebrating something. These guys say that they had just completed a multi million dollar merger and were celebrating.
At the end of the meal they leave him a $600 tip. Oh and after he was done helping those guys he tells everyone good buy and leaves for the night. He still got to go home early.
the standard now is 18%, 20% and 22%... whose standard? who decided that? And based on what reason? MY standard is to be paid $200,000 a year, and it didnt seem to be respected.
And your following examples are horrible, and counter productive. Servers should like to serve people, and provide good service no matter what. It is their job to serve. If they decide service based on expected tips, well, sorry I can't respect these people, and this is probably why are the stuck at the low end of the social echelon and I have no sympathy for them to be paid $2.13 an hour.
The solution is just to pay everyone at least minimum wage. But I am afraid the waitors won't be happy because they want more.
So you are saying that they should get the same today as 10 years ago. Do you make the same today that you made 10 years ago? 20% has always been the rule of thumb today 10 years ago, or 20 years ago.
you lost your logic.
Food prices went up. If they make 15% tips, they still receive more income. I see no reason for the percentage to go up.
as to my salary, there is statistics that show median household income in American didn't change at all for the past 20 years. You can go search it.
In addition to the above regarding the wages of servers, most people do not know that restaurants, are required to track the amount of sales for each server, use a standard tip amount based on the sales, and take out taxes for that amount on paychecks.
Servers in the US "expect" a tip for good service because they assume that guests understand that by entering a sit-down restaurant, they are entering into a well-established social contract, that the guests are not cheapskates, and that the guests will not attempt to show their displeasure towards said social contract by stiffing the server, because obviously, this does nothing except stiff the server, not the system.
Obviously, sometimes servers are wrong.
Restaurant owners are in a business, no different than other entrepreneurs, they are there to make money, and no one has any quarrel with that. What IS appalling is the idea of your customers paying your help on top of paying the bill, supposedly WITH the server wages included. I'm going to say that the public's acceptance of the low wage construct so common in today's restaurants is to blame for the concept of a surcharge on the food that amounts to an extra twenty percent of the bill.
Would this then be an acceptable thing for those in the server labor force or in the owner class, to abide by in all of their business transactions? No, we know better than to expect that kind of gratuity in most other cases of labor appreciation. Low wages combined with such archaic practices is simply wrong, and no amount of complaining about low margins on the part of owners will ever change that. Calling this rude form of entitlement a "social contract" does little to right the innate wrong relevant to that expectation.
In my business owner days I would have been laughed at in disbelief by the workers (not to mention, customers) had I suggested that the customer compensate my employees..Time for restaurateurs to step up and be the business owners who pay good wages, and the customer will possibly pay more, but no more than the market will bear..Meanwhile.....
I tip generously, knowing that if I don't these people may never be properly compensated, but that doesn't mean that I agree with the custom.. if the restaurant owner wants to raise his prices by twenty percent and pay the help a decent wage and benefits, I'm good with that.
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