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Old 09-01-2017, 08:32 PM
 
Location: New York Area
16,050 posts, read 6,320,768 times
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Originally Posted by SouthernProper View Post
I'm not sure. We do have friends there and they love it, but they haven't talked much about living conditions. I am under the impression that the Jewish tradition requires keeping things very clean and kosher. But do they have clean water and good sanitation in the cities? There is a lot of conflict in Israel, so it's not on my list. It is beautiful, though ... and I love the Jewish people and Israel as a whole.
There is really not "a lot of conflict in Israel." Israel is a first-world country with a thriving hi-tech industry. It rates high in terms of the happiness of their people overall. One of the reasons Israel receives bad publicity is that it manages to keep most of the conflict outside of Israel proper. That is why a Hamas leader was picked off on a plaza, killing only him and his bodyguard.

I am Jewish though not Orthodox. The Jewish tradition has certain rules but little involving cleanliness. The Jews though have, since ancient times been at the forefront of medical and scientific knowledge and have implicitly understood the dangers of filth. That is why when bubonic plague hit Europe the Jews were substantially less affected. This led to some lurid rumors that the Jews were spreading the plague.

Israel has exceptional sanitation and water throughout, not only in the cities. Read Seth M. Siegel's excellent book Let There Be Water: Israelís Solution for a Water-Starved World.
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Old 09-01-2017, 08:38 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
18,157 posts, read 23,113,673 times
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Any place I have to cover my head or body or not drive, etc., because I'm a woman.
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Old 09-01-2017, 09:13 PM
 
Location: Gulf Coast
1,256 posts, read 545,674 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
There is really not "a lot of conflict in Israel." Israel is a first-world country with a thriving hi-tech industry. It rates high in terms of the happiness of their people overall. One of the reasons Israel receives bad publicity is that it manages to keep most of the conflict outside of Israel proper. That is why a Hamas leader was picked off on a plaza, killing only him and his bodyguard.

I am Jewish though not Orthodox. The Jewish tradition has certain rules but little involving cleanliness. The Jews though have, since ancient times been at the forefront of medical and scientific knowledge and have implicitly understood the dangers of filth. That is why when bubonic plague hit Europe the Jews were substantially less affected. This led to some lurid rumors that the Jews were spreading the plague.

Israel has exceptional sanitation and water throughout, not only in the cities. Read Seth M. Siegel's excellent book Let There Be Water: Israel’s Solution for a Water-Starved World.
Thank you for the information! Wonderful to know that. Our friends do indicate that it's not the safest, though. Is it because Israel is such a target? Political unrest would be my concern? Israel has been very blessed by God and they are very intelligent and resourceful, to be sure. We recently had a Jewish man here who presented a Seder table to show us how Passover is celebrated, I loved learning about the symbolism. Maybe I will go to Israel one day, if I can tolerate the plane ride. It would be so exciting ... all that history!!!
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Old 09-01-2017, 09:24 PM
 
Location: New York Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernProper View Post
Thank you for the information! Wonderful to know that. Our friends do indicate that it's not the safest, though. Is it because Israel is such a target? Political unrest would be my concern? Israel has been very blessed by God and they are very intelligent and resourceful, to be sure. We recently had a Jewish man here who presented a Seder table to show us how Passover is celebrated, I loved learning about the symbolism. Maybe I will go to Israel one day, if I can tolerate the plane ride. It would be so exciting ... all that history!!!
There really is little political unrest. Israel elects members of the Parliament, or Knesset, much the same way other proportional representation countries elect theirs. The press can be vicious but that's about as bad as it gets. Yes, Israel is a target, but the risks from that are no worse than they are in a major world city like London (well their mayor seems alright with terror but I digress), New York, Tokyo or Sydney.

As far as Seder tables that's interesting but a good chunk of Israelis are secular Jews. There are some ultra-orthodox but they don't mix much with anyone.
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Old 09-01-2017, 09:27 PM
 
Location: Howard County, Maryland
5,724 posts, read 3,682,547 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
NOKO is arguably more progressive since the South is just a republic whereas the North is a people's democratic republic. That means to me that its government really cares about its people.
You left off the sarcasm emoji.


Or, on the off chance that you are actually being serious, I would recommend that you take a vacation to Pyongyang. If you manage to avoid being thrown in jail while you're there and successfully manage to leave, immediately go to Seoul. Then tell me if you can't tell the difference between the two places, even though both of them are populated by Korean people.
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Old 09-01-2017, 09:31 PM
 
Location: Gulf Coast
1,256 posts, read 545,674 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
There really is little political unrest. Israel elects members of the Parliament, or Knesset, much the same way other proportional representation countries elect theirs. The press can be vicious but that's about as bad as it gets. Yes, Israel is a target, but the risks from that are no worse than they are in a major world city like London (well their mayor seems alright with terror but I digress), New York, Tokyo or Sydney.

As far as Seder tables that's interesting but a good chunk of Israelis are secular Jews. There are some ultra-orthodox but they don't mix much with anyone.
I always think of Synagogues, Rabbi's, kosher kitchens, Hasidic Jews ... forgetting that Jews are just people, some Orthodox, some not (just like not all Christians are the same). Have you been to Israel?
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Old 09-01-2017, 10:12 PM
 
Location: New York Area
16,050 posts, read 6,320,768 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernProper View Post
I always think of Synagogues, Rabbi's, kosher kitchens, Hasidic Jews ... forgetting that Jews are just people, some Orthodox, some not (just like not all Christians are the same). Have you been to Israel?
I have not but my wife and most of my close friends have. The rub in my going to Israel is that my wife doesn't want to go back. She didn't like her teen tour group; a very entitled and not down to earth type of people. There's an off chance I may go with my older son at some point.

Everyone I know, including my friends, my wife and my temple members say that Israel is clean and safe. As far as being Orthodox I am decidedly not. I had a pork chop for dinner tonight, for example, and then went to Friday night services.
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Old 09-01-2017, 11:27 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
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Israel seemed fine to me, tho border crossings were tense (as expected).
I appreciate their fortitude and skillset (hold patents on the most inventions per capita).

I'm fortunate, 30 yrs in various parts of the globe, the only issue I have is air pollution in large cities in China causing congestion. (as does ANY A/C, USA or Asia) (Definitely will not find me east of Missouri River between May and Sept).

I actually look forward to the new 17.5 hr non-stop flight to Singapore. Lots of time to SLEEP! Leave at 10PM, arrive at 6AM (2 days later), fresh for a new day and no hotel required! (Changi Airport has showers / areas to freshen up). Coming home... leave at 8AM and arrive to USA at 8AM the same day! No lost time. Go right to work, or go have some fun in SF.

Most of the world travels this way (overnight buses / trains / ferries / flights...) USA allows houses to spring up around airports, so night flights are severely restricted. Too bad, it is terrible to burn daylight 'commuting' via flights. Lost productivity sets the USA back millions of $$ per day.
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Old 09-02-2017, 12:04 AM
 
Location: New Mexico
6,668 posts, read 3,717,510 times
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I actually have a number of places I want to visit but never gave thought to where I would not want to go. There are places I never want to see again (Branson and Houston) and places I have no interest in visiting (Philadelphia, Indianapolis). There are many war-torn places I would avoid. North Korea, Haiti, Serbia, Sudan...might be on my list.
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Old 09-02-2017, 03:32 AM
 
Location: Australia
8,037 posts, read 2,824,728 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernProper View Post

Another of our friends lives in an apartment in Shanghai... their ONE apartment building houses 1,000,000 (ONE MILLION) people. How can that be sanitary?
I'd say your friend is telling porky pies. Think about it for a moment... Shanghai's population is a bit over 24 million. So 4% of their population lives in just one building?

That's more than the population of Grand Rapids, Warren City, Sterling Heights City, Lansing City, Ann Arbor City, Kalamazoo City, Livonia City and Flint City put together. Even then, this magical one building would still be looking for nearly 50,000 tenants! Can you imagine all those people squished into just one building? (I chose Michigan cities since you said somewhere you were from that State).

Here's a video of Shanghai for your enjoyment:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnSMrqWvGMU

Also, you said something upthread about not being able to worship freely in Dubai. There are a number of christian churches in Dubai - I'm sure at least one of them would meet your needs should you ever find yourself there.
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