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Old 11-19-2017, 08:58 PM
 
Location: In the heights
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marothisu View Post
It is definitely a big city by both American and European standards. By some Asian standards, especially Chinese standards, it's a mid sized city (some people from the larger cities would even say smaller city - but then again they would also say that LA is the same thing), but that's doesn't matter. My girlfriend's parents shared a Chinese article with me when they visited Chicago a little over a year ago that said in Chinese that Chicago has a "perfect balance of urbanism." My girlfriend has told me numerous times that "Chinese love Chicago" sometimes more than NYC even because of the better balance, at least downtown, or greenery to urbanism. A place which is bigger doesn't mean it's automatically better (not starting NYC vs. Chicago thing - just stating my own opinion on size). I happen to like Chengdu, China more than Beijing - both are big cities, but Chengdu is smaller. I also like Hangzhou, China more than Beijing - even smaller than Chengdu. It means nothing especially when you're dealing with cities with enough things to do, eat, etc.
It’s pretty easy to like almost any city over Beijing, tbqh.

I’d also like for Chicago to bulk up quite a bit. Another million in city limits would be good with enough attendant infrastructure.
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Old 11-19-2017, 09:03 PM
 
Location: Upper West Side, Manhattan, NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
It’s pretty easy to like almost any city over Beijing, tbqh.
I actually liked certain parts of Beijing, but really that wasn't my point. How about this one - I like San Francisco more than LA. Point is that when you are visiting somewhere, size only matters to a certain extent. Okay great, city X has 20 more Vietnamese options than City Y, but guess what? You aren't going to get through those in a 3-7 day visit anyway, so it doesn't matter. If anything, quality at that point matters more. Size is such a crap indicator of "which city is better ____" when you're dealing with two cities of ample size, especially when you're just going on a short visit.
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Old 11-19-2017, 09:31 PM
 
Location: In the heights
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marothisu View Post
I actually liked certain parts of Beijing, but really that wasn't my point. How about this one - I like San Francisco more than LA. Point is that when you are visiting somewhere, size only matters to a certain extent. Okay great, city X has 20 more Vietnamese options than City Y, but guess what? You aren't going to get through those in a 3-7 day visit anyway, so it doesn't matter. If anything, quality at that point matters more. Size is such a crap indicator of "which city is better ____" when you're dealing with two cities of ample size, especially when you're just going on a short visit.
Sheer numbers can help somewhat for certain things such as a particular kind of restaurant as itís like having more rolls of the die to get something really good, and as a visitor, you do research and stake out the best of them. I get your point though about just going on sheer size. I mean, that size certainly doesnít do much for Beijing.
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Old 11-19-2017, 09:38 PM
 
Location: Upper West Side, Manhattan, NYC
14,803 posts, read 19,059,338 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
Sheer numbers can help somewhat for certain things such as a particular kind of restaurant as it’s like having more rolls of the die to get something really good, and as a visitor, you do research and stake out the best of them. I get your point though about just going on sheer size. I mean, that size certainly doesn’t do much for Beijing.
Sure, but if you are picking between city A and city B - and city A has 15 great Middle Eastern options while city B has 30 great Middle Eastern options - you won't be really missing much in one versus the other unless one city is constantly busy for most of them and you can't find a table but the other city you could. I think these things are extremely personal to a person looking to visit anywhere in the world. Completely dependent on what they want to do. City A may have way better Japanese options than City B, but maybe for a bunch of people they really don't care at all about Japanese food, so it's a non factor. Perhaps another person looks for more outdoor things to do - it's all relative and personal to every single traveler. Size is one factor, but not the end-all-be-all of where you should visit. In that case, everybody would be clamoring to visit Lagos, Nigeria and Karachi, Pakistan.

BTW, a page or two back it was stated that Shanghai's metro area is 23 or 24 million. That's wrong - that's the urban area. The metro area of Shanghai is actually around 35 million people. Lot of rural-ish land around there - not much different than the major metro areas of the US, but also a lot of people scattered around in there. Of course, you can't really compare metro areas of almost any two different countries in the world because most countries define what a metropolitan area is differently than one another. Also much different considering you have cities like Suzhou, with over 10 million people in its area, which literally borders the outer fringes of Shanghai. That would be like if Long Island directly east of the fringes of Queens had a city larger than Los Angeles with a metropolitan area about the size of Chicago area literally next door to it. Next to Suzhou is also Wuxi which has 3.5 million people in the city proper.

Last edited by marothisu; 11-19-2017 at 09:55 PM..
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Old 11-19-2017, 09:57 PM
 
Location: In the heights
22,224 posts, read 23,744,506 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marothisu View Post
Sure, but if you are picking between city A and city B - and city A has 15 great Middle Eastern options while city B has 30 great Middle Eastern options - you won't be really missing much in one versus the other unless one city is constantly busy for most of them and you can't find a table but the other city you could. I think these things are extremely personal to a person looking to visit anywhere in the world. Completely dependent on what they want to do. City A may have way better Japanese options than City B, but maybe for a bunch of people they really don't care at all about Japanese food, so it's a non factor. Perhaps another person looks for more outdoor things to do - it's all relative and personal to every single traveler. Size is one factor, but not the end-all-be-all of where you should visit. In that case, everybody would be clamoring to visit Lagos, Nigeria and Karachi, Pakistan.

BTW, a page or two back it was stated that Shanghai's metro area is 23 or 24 million. That's wrong - that's the urban area. The metro area of Shanghai is actually around 35 million people. Lot of rural-ish land around there - not much different than the major metro areas of the US, but also a lot of people scattered around in there. Of course, you can't really compare metro areas of almost any two different countries in the world because most countries define what a metropolitan area is differently than one another.
I get the idea behind size not being the only factor, thatís why I say it makes a difference in some things. If youíre really into Middle Easter cuisine and a lot of other factors remain fairly close (such as being part of the same country), then a place that is an order of magnitude more Middle Eastern people and restaurants makes it that much more likely that thereíll be a couple of very good ones and has a higher chance of having a restaurant that is really, really good. It wonít necessarily always work out that the best of that will be in the one with the most, but the chances are higher. This doesnít apply to all things, but I think it applies pretty well when it comes to discussing a particular type of restaurant in the context of comparing them among US cities.

In an earlier post in this thread, I stated I think Shanghai is something more like 1.5x to 2x more populous than NYCónot the 3x municipal boundaries gives which isnít apples to apples, but definitely bigger. The city is really big.

The craziest megacity to come will likely be when Hong Kong loses much of its autonomous status and it really strongly integrates with Shenzhen and the surrounding Pearl River Delta cities. Thatís going to be an urban area that just goes on and on and on.
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Old 11-19-2017, 10:01 PM
 
Location: Upper West Side, Manhattan, NYC
14,803 posts, read 19,059,338 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
I get the idea behind size not being the only factor, that’s why I say it makes a difference in some things. If you’re really into Middle Easter cuisine and a lot of other factors remain fairly close (such as being part of the same country), then a place that is an order of magnitude more Middle Eastern people and restaurants makes it that much more likely that there’ll be a couple of very good ones and has a higher chance of having a restaurant that is really, really good. It won’t necessarily always work out that the best of that will be in the one with the most, but the chances are higher. This doesn’t apply to all things, but I think it applies pretty well when it comes to discussing a particular type of restaurant in the context of comparing them among US cities.
I think Americans vastly overrate how good the ethnic food is in their cities - especially "there's a lot of them so they must be good!" I don't really agree with you on this to be honest - though there are various cuisines in various cities I would say maybe this applies to, but definitely not a ton. That's another story though.


Quote:
In an earlier post in this thread, I stated I think Shanghai is something more like 1.5x to 2x more populous than NYC—not the 3x municipal boundaries gives which isn’t apples to apples, but definitely bigger. The city is really big.

The craziest megacity to come will likely be when Hong Kong loses much of its autonomous status and it really strongly integrates with Shenzhen and the surrounding Pearl River Delta cities. That’s going to be an urban area that just goes on and on and on.

If you're counting the entire area, then Shanghai is not 3X, agree. However the city propers , Shanghai is basically 3X the size of NYC. China is just on another level when it comes to cities though - population wise. Almost every city I've ever been to in China (7 now) was larger than NYC. The only one that was not was only smaller in population than NYC by about 400K people.

It'll be a long time even if Hong Kong and Shenzhen were to combine. There's a lot of open land or not as urban areas of Hong Kong, especially up there in the New Territories to make it one huge ass city connecting down to the part of HK that everyone thinks of when they say Hong Kong. That's also a long ways away at a minimum - 2047, but nobody knows what will happen. It's 30 years away.

Last edited by marothisu; 11-19-2017 at 10:10 PM..
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Old 11-19-2017, 10:19 PM
 
Location: In the heights
22,224 posts, read 23,744,506 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marothisu View Post
I think Americans vastly overrate how good the ethnic food is in their cities - especially "there's a lot of them so they must be good!" I don't really agree with you on this to be honest - though there are various cuisines in various cities I would say maybe this applies to, but definitely not a ton. That's another story though.





If you're counting the entire area, then Shanghai is not 3X, agree. However the city propers , Shanghai is basically 3X the size of NYC. China is just on another level when it comes to cities though - population wise. Almost every city I've ever been to in China (7 now) was larger than NYC. The only one that was not was only smaller in population than NYC by about 400K people.

It'll be a long time even if Hong Kong and Shenzhen were to combine. There's a lot of open land or not as urban areas of Hong Kong, especially up there in the New Territories to make it one huge ass city connecting down to the part of HK that everyone thinks of when they say Hong Kong.
we disagree thenóI believe as a general rule, a large number of restaurants and population of ____ correlates to a better chance of finding a good restaurant of that type.

I wrote municipal boundaries, which yields the technically true 3x size difference. In actual urban area/connectedness, itís more like something between 1.5x or 2x. China has done a lot of top-level shuffling of municipal boundaries and a way that I think has been really reasonable and more reflective of how things are arranged in regards to metros and cities.

The open land of the New Territories are off limits to development and I hope they stay that way. What I was thinking was that once the border restrictions are eliminated between Shenzhen and Hong Kong, the two will basically really mesh into one city as they are literally right next to each other. If the MTR and Shenzhen metro lines become combined to run through each other (which would be possible with the elimination of border checks), then that is functionally a aingle large megacity which would be massive
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Old 11-19-2017, 11:19 PM
 
377 posts, read 203,461 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiatldal View Post
This is silly NY is not 3x Chicago size and Chicago is nearly a mega city. By your logic London and Paris aren't big cities either cause they are closer to Chicago, than New York size.
By Municipal Boundaries, NYC is 3x bigger than Chicago. 8 million divided by 2.7 million is 2.96. If you struggle doing basic division, you can borrow a calculator.

By Metropolitan area, NYC is 2.2x as big as Chicago.
By Urban area (my favorite criteria), NYC is 2.5x as big as Chicago.

Now, London nor Paris are part of this discussion. In reality, "big" has no meaning, it's always what is bigger. Since the OP mentioned Chicago in the same context as NYC, I had to point out that no, Chicago is not a "big" city like NYC.

And while not the topic of this discussion. Neither London nor Paris are "mega cities." They are however important global cities, Chicago is not. But it's worth stating, you can be a Mega city without being a city of global importance (many cities in China, Manilla, Tehran, Cairo, etc I'd argue are Mega cities without much global importance). And you can be a city of Global importance without being a Mega City (London, Singapore, Dubai, etc).

Chicago is neither a Mega City nor is it a city of Global Importance. Nor is it a city with historic value or gateway to natural wonders which is kind of why I don't view it as a tourist destination. It's sort of a nice town, and mostly for American tourists.
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Old 11-20-2017, 05:51 AM
 
Location: Chicago metro
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I thought to be considered megacity, the minimum population in the MSA is 10 million. London and Paris are megacities. Chicago is almost there with aproximateky 9.5 million in its msa. Chicago is actually one of the more important cities in relations to London, so I don't know where the city not being global comes from.
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Old 11-20-2017, 06:05 AM
 
Location: Norfolk, VA
6,383 posts, read 6,030,535 times
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Originally Posted by midwest1 View Post
Turnabout is fair play.

If you are not wealthy, either Americann, Mexican, Latin American, Asian, and European, etc, and for some reason you have already visited Chicago, maybe for work, or you attended school.in the Midwest....

And your travel budget is limited, is it actually worth it to spend the money to visit New York City??
Yes. I've been to both. New York City is overwhelming. Well I'll just say that Manhattan is overwhelming, I haven't been to the other boroughs. Plus I like the metro area; if you aren't paying attention it is easy to mistake parts of New Jersey for Manhattan. Chicago does not have that.

But I love Chicago. Cleaner than NYC. Prettier than NYC. I think that Downtown Chicago is enough for most people. But one should still see NYC, just to know what else is out there.

Plus it is cool to enter into NYC. Chicago, you already know because you're driving through nothing and it appears in the distance. Manhattan you can enter into various ways. Nothing like going into a tunnel underneath NYC, then walking upstairs in the train station and walking outside to see NYC up close and personal. Chicago doesn't have that.

But Chicago is interesting with the elevated streets. And it is in the Midwest, so I am biased. Plus, it isn't like you are just this nobody from nowhere visiting Chicago, with people with strange accents, like you have in NYC. What Chicago does have, is interesting and unique. I never felt like Chicago was less than, because again, one does not realistically need the depth of the concrete jungle you get in NYC in every city. I'm glad that NYC has it, but I don't need it on a day to day, but it is great to visit every now and again.

You'll get a big city feel in either place. The average person does not care about what makes Chicago different from NYC. They can't wrap their mind around it, and they aren't loosing any sleep over it. If anything Chicagoans and New Yorkers care about that. Average person, a city like DC is more than enough for them. DC is very interesting on its own, and the high rise suburbs in Virginia and Maryland are the icing on top of the cake.

People should visit all of the large cities in this country, if they can. You can talk about LA, Chicago, NYC, Atlanta, DC, Detroit, etc but that is nothing like actually visiting these places and seeing them in person.
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