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Old 01-19-2018, 07:38 AM
 
Location: Niceville, FL
7,686 posts, read 16,121,603 times
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I want to say I read an article a while back about how being Syria-adjacent has negatively impacted Jordan's tourism industry. So if Petra's on your bucket list, now might be a sweet spot in terms of greater regional stability but before the tour groups return in full force and frequency.
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Old 01-19-2018, 08:43 AM
 
708 posts, read 779,126 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
True...but not everyone reads every post, usually they just read the original post and then respond. There are 3 pages here.
But it was clear that some people did read further, including yourself, and chose to push forward with telling OP to put all of her very valid reasons aside and go anyway. Part of discussion is taking what a person says and understanding their point of view. When there is a lack of knowledge on what the other party is stating, that is not the time to dismiss the statements as invalid. What that person stated could or could not be true, but since the other party does not have the knowledge to determine either way, invalidating and pushing their own ideas is not the correct response.

There actually is a great chance that she will experience a very hard time just to enter the country, if not outright denied. It’s recommended to Google if you don’t know people personally like I do, who have experienced issues with travel and entry to Israel. There are a few reasons... and the people I know were born and raised Americans, law-abiding professionals, and non-Muslim.

I’ll drive the personal preference point home a little further. I know many Jewish people who will never, ever, ever travel to Germany. I’ve never once heard a Jewish person told that they should go to Germany anyway.

Yes, I saw your original reply that you chose to edit. I chose to respond anyway. I will leave this direction alone so that the original topic can continue.
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Old 01-19-2018, 09:31 AM
 
12,327 posts, read 18,433,096 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mangomadness View Post
But it was clear that some people did read further, including yourself, and chose to push forward with telling OP to put all of her very valid reasons aside and go anyway. Part of discussion is taking what a person says and understanding their point of view. When there is a lack of knowledge on what the other party is stating, that is not the time to dismiss the statements as invalid. What that person stated could or could not be true, but since the other party does not have the knowledge to determine either way, invalidating and pushing their own ideas is not the correct response.

There actually is a great chance that she will experience a very hard time just to enter the country, if not outright denied. It’s recommended to Google if you don’t know people personally like I do, who have experienced issues with travel and entry to Israel. There are a few reasons... and the people I know were born and raised Americans, law-abiding professionals, and non-Muslim.

I’ll drive the personal preference point home a little further. I know many Jewish people who will never, ever, ever travel to Germany. I’ve never once heard a Jewish person told that they should go to Germany anyway.

Yes, I saw your original reply that you chose to edit. I chose to respond anyway. I will leave this direction alone so that the original topic can continue.
Well her first response "avoid all the drama" didn't really make sense, so there is that. The intent for me and the other guy was to be helpful. I was content to leave the issue alone when she went into more detail to explain her reason, but here we are revisiting the topic again, so we are both complicit. And once again new people will comment because they only read the first post.

I am just objectively explaining the circumstances. Let's move on as you are simply extending an issue that you claim to not want to discuss...you are just drawing more debate.
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Old 01-19-2018, 10:51 AM
 
Location: Toronto
6,754 posts, read 3,790,424 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mangomadness View Post
Ummm, last I checked, it’s a person’s personal preference to go to not to go to certain countries or not. OP does not want to go to Israel, and that is her choice, regardless of reasons. I actually understand exactly what she is referencing, but even if I didn’t, it’s okay. Once it was repeated that the interest in Israel isn’t there, that should be enough.



I’m sure everyone has certain countries they don’t want to go to even when others say oh, you should at least go. I got a lot of backlash when I recommended Turkey because everyone feared for their safety as Americans traveling there. I went solo and never felt unsafe, but most people I have told me they will never go to Turkey... or Cuba, now that I think about it.



I won’t even start on certain countries in sub-Saharan Africa. Outside of South Africa or a safari in Kenya, many are not interested in going. Some people don’t care for countries in Europe - some aren’t interested in Eastern Europe, but will spend time in Western Europe. There’s amazing places all over the world to some, and others will see the same places as not so great. I can go on and on, but I think the point was made.

I went to Turkey a while ago.
I think because I was there when I around 22 with a friend around that same age the experience was a bit tainted by lots of sexual harassment from young men. It was not all men... but specifically men that worked in the shops and markets that very crossing the lines. Likely because we where young females travelling alone. I think if we were older and more assertive they would not have pushed their luck. In Morocco and Egypt I was with my husband. Also through experience I have learned not to be so friendly when dealing with men in Arab countries and male/ female interactions are different and things like smiling too much or making direct eye contact is interpreted as inviting being propositioned. I was literally followed out of a shop by a guy and then him and his friends started following me and calling me a "stuck up American b!t@h" .... as a Canadian it was like a double . Most people were really nice, very welcoming and friendly. People continually assumed we were American... but regardless they did not seem hostile. If anything ... it is was more like, "Wow. You have come from far. Welcome. How are you liking it here. A lot of people were excited to talk with us to practice their English. Also met a lot of people that wanted to show up around or make suggestions of places to eat and see." There was a friend of this guy I became friendly with there who actually sat down and scolded me about bad things America and Western countries do". I had to interrupt him like 10 times and remind her that I was Canadian and it seriously was physically a different country lol. His response... like many other people ... "Whatever ... it is basically the same thing ". Ironically he ended up marrying someone French and moving to France lol. If anything he was annoying, but not posing a threat.

My advise to anyone travelling to the Middle East or North Africa from the USA or Canada is don't talk about politics or fast food if you want to avoid drama lol.

The average person does not dislike us ... they are curious and excited to meet someone from somewhere else and wanted to show you their culture. You are very likely to meet a lot of people wanted to disprove misconceptions about their country and culture.
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Old 01-19-2018, 11:00 AM
 
Location: Toronto
6,754 posts, read 3,790,424 times
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Default .....

Quote:
Originally Posted by beachmouse View Post
I want to say I read an article a while back about how being Syria-adjacent has negatively impacted Jordan's tourism industry. So if Petra's on your bucket list, now might be a sweet spot in terms of greater regional stability but before the tour groups return in full force and frequency.
I am not a fan of doing tour groups. My husband and daughter speak Arabic so we should be okay in terms of communication. When we travelled to Egypt we went on our own too and it was not a problem. It was a bit uncomfortable at times as there is tension between the Muslim and Christians in Egypt and several times there were comments made that were a bit controversial as names usually suggest the religion you follow.
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Old 01-19-2018, 11:18 AM
 
Location: Toronto
6,754 posts, read 3,790,424 times
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Default ......

Quote:
Originally Posted by mangomadness View Post
But it was clear that some people did read further, including yourself, and chose to push forward with telling OP to put all of her very valid reasons aside and go anyway. Part of discussion is taking what a person says and understanding their point of view. When there is a lack of knowledge on what the other party is stating, that is not the time to dismiss the statements as invalid. What that person stated could or could not be true, but since the other party does not have the knowledge to determine either way, invalidating and pushing their own ideas is not the correct response.

There actually is a great chance that she will experience a very hard time just to enter the country, if not outright denied. Itís recommended to Google if you donít know people personally like I do, who have experienced issues with travel and entry to Israel. There are a few reasons... and the people I know were born and raised Americans, law-abiding professionals, and non-Muslim.

Iíll drive the personal preference point home a little further. I know many Jewish people who will never, ever, ever travel to Germany. Iíve never once heard a Jewish person told that they should go to Germany anyway.

Yes, I saw your original reply that you chose to edit. I chose to respond anyway. I will leave this direction alone so that the original topic can continue.
In reality I would go to Israel if directly give the opportunity.... but it is not my first pick. My head is not prepared to deal with all the drama that is Israel. How someone view Israel is highly depend on who their are. Your comment regarding Germany is a perfect example. I have been to Germany and I have very aware of the what happen in Germany. I have a lot of interact with the Jewish community in Toronto and have even dated several Israeli men.

If you are from a middle eastern background like me .... you likely do see the unfairness of the situation.
It is bitter sweet. You can be happy for one group in one sense, but then be horrified and really sickened to see how one groups happiness was created by doing traumatic harm to another group. I would compare it to how someone from outside would come to Canada and see how the average Canadian lives compared to many of our first nation's people.

When I go on vacation I don't want to have that over my head. My husband and I are not even the same faith it also make things a lot of more interesting lol. There are 3 main religious groups always fighting in the middle east and my household represents 2 of them so gain Israel seems like too much drama for a relaxing family vacation. I am looking for the magic carpet ride, great good, shopping and maybe a camel ride type middle eastern vacation ... no interest in wars, conflict and religious relics.
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Old 01-19-2018, 11:20 AM
 
Location: Toronto
6,754 posts, read 3,790,424 times
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Default .....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
Well her first response "avoid all the drama" didn't really make sense, so there is that. The intent for me and the other guy was to be helpful. I was content to leave the issue alone when she went into more detail to explain her reason, but here we are revisiting the topic again, so we are both complicit. And once again new people will comment because they only read the first post.

I am just objectively explaining the circumstances. Let's move on as you are simply extending an issue that you claim to not want to discuss...you are just drawing more debate.
If you read my last post I think I spell out the "drama" comment a bit better.
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Old 01-19-2018, 12:47 PM
 
2,551 posts, read 1,646,355 times
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Dubai and Abu Dhabi seem to have what you are looking for.
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Old 01-19-2018, 12:57 PM
 
Location: NYC
2,919 posts, read 1,594,641 times
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Another vote for Turkey here. (ETA: just read back on your unpleasant experiences there, sorry, my girlfriend, 40 years ago, experienced similar things)

I have almost zero desire to visit any part of the Middle East even though i travel for pleasure a lot, however last year Bourdain did a program on Oman which really made it seem to stand out from most of the other ME countries in a very positive way.

How about Cyprus or the Greek Islands? ( Not exactly the ME....)
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Old 01-19-2018, 01:00 PM
 
Location: Toronto
6,754 posts, read 3,790,424 times
Reputation: 4619
Default .....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hefe View Post
Another vote for Turkey here.

I have almost zero desire to visit any part of the Middle East even though i travel for pleasure a lot, however last year Bourdain did a program on Oman which really made it seem to stand out from most of the other ME countries in a very positive way.
Re: Anthony Bourdain... love his shows. He has really done a good number of episodes on places in the Middle East and North Africa.
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