U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Travel
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 02-24-2018, 06:14 PM
 
Location: Middle of the Pacific Ocean
11,724 posts, read 6,305,954 times
Reputation: 11554

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by kamban View Post
In India all 5 star hotels and hotels owned by American brands ( Marriott. Hilton and iHG) have the security guard checking under the car for a bomb at the hotel gate entrance. When you come in all luggage and hand baggage have to go through a metal detector. Every time during your stay. Same thing in Kenya and Tanzania.

For them labor is cheap and security is a lesser part of the hotel running expenses. I don't see that coming to the Hamptons and Courtyard here.
This is true. It was a bit of a shock for me to see that when I was in India; I first observed it at the Taj Mahal Hotel complex. Of course, that leaves a whole lot of other hotels (including some very nice hotels) without such security measures in India.

Honestly, the closest thing I've seen to meaningful security at US hotels was in New Orleans around Mardi Gras time, when armed security stands guard at the entrance to hotels, checking to see that only guests are allowed to enter into the lobby.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-24-2018, 06:24 PM
 
3,300 posts, read 1,569,743 times
Reputation: 3616
US hotel do not do this because of laws on the books. Even checking the trunk is invasion of privacy,like demanding to know what's in your bag or your pocket. I enjoy my freedom!

The reality is, if the bad guys really wanted to do harm, like walk into a hotel with 4 suitcases filled with the bad stuff , it won't be hard. The bellman will even bring the bag to your room for you.

We would hope the bad guys will come to this country, and like what they see, and decide to live free than do harm.

Bottem line, hotels are not going to pay for experts to work all day trying to stop bombs and guns. The average security will not be skilled enough to spot real threats.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-24-2018, 06:33 PM
 
Location: Middle of the Pacific Ocean
11,724 posts, read 6,305,954 times
Reputation: 11554
Quote:
Originally Posted by kapikap View Post
US hotel do not do this because of laws on the books. Even checking the trunk is invasion of privacy,like demanding to know what's in your bag or your pocket. I enjoy my freedom!

The reality is, if the bad guys really wanted to do harm, like walk into a hotel with 4 suitcases filled with the bad stuff , it won't be hard. The bellman will even bring the bag to your room for you.

We would hope the bad guys will come to this country, and like what they see, and decide to live free than do harm.

Bottem line, hotels are not going to pay for experts to work all day trying to stop bombs and guns. The average security will not be skilled enough to spot real threats.
That's not right at all. Privacy laws do not prevent private companies in the US from engaging in such tactics (certainly not as a general matter).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-24-2018, 11:12 PM
 
3,300 posts, read 1,569,743 times
Reputation: 3616
Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident View Post
That's not right at all. Privacy laws do not prevent private companies in the US from engaging in such tactics (certainly not as a general matter).
This is true, but I as a customer that cares , will probably go elsewhere. Whats in the Bag, trunk,wallet? It gets tired real quick. As a guest renting a hotel room, I can deny the innkeeper access to my room, as well as police. At least that is how rights to privacy works. Innocent until proven guilty. Once you let your guard down, they trample on your rights even more.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-25-2018, 12:10 AM
 
Location: Log "cabin" west of Bangor
5,677 posts, read 6,779,463 times
Reputation: 10247
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmlandis View Post
Some hotels in urumqi.have this. All subways in Beijing have this. Currently in Cairo and most sights have this
Why not usa with so many armed folks.
The law recognizes a hotel room as one's domicile, even if it is only on a temporary basis. As such, the Rights and protections of the Constitution and its Amendments are in full force and effect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CGab View Post
I was just in Vegas and there were no metal detectors. What they are doing now however is making it mandatory that they check the room daily. They are no longer letting people put the door tag on "Do not disturb" so the room is not checked by hotel personnel such as maids, etc. There is a tag you can hang that states "occupied" so they are aware you are in there, but you must allow them access every 24 hours.
And, what do they think they are going to do? Rifle through my luggage to see what's in there? I would *become* a problem, for *them*.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jkgourmet View Post
I hate to say this, but so long as the US Constitution allows citizens to have guns, there will not be metal detectors at public places. Especially in Nevada which is an open carry state - and doesn't even require a permit to open carry.

I'm slightly hopeful that the US will ban assault and/or automatic weapons (eventually - ain't gonna happen now). I'm more hopeful that the age for purchasing a gun will be raised to 21. But that's about it. The constitution (to say nothing of the power of the NRA due to it's money donated for political campaigns,) will not allow much of a change at all.
Automatic assault weapons are already severely restricted in many areas. Here in ME, while automatic weapons are not restricted one must still successfully navigate the red tape of Federal requirements and pay the NFA tax on them. However, Federal laws banning the private sales of automatic weapons manufactured after a particular date have resulted in a limited supply of weapons manufactured before that date, which has made the cost of purchase rather expensive.

An [increased] age requirement for purchasing/owning a gun is not the answer, and 'age' is not the problem. At the age of 12 I legally owned and carried my own gun. Every day I go to work, I drive past a High School that maintains an indoor range, and every student who wants to practices on a regular basis. Once upon a time, children brought their own guns to school, both for protection and to hunt game on their way home.

At the age of 17 I enlisted in the Army, already a highly qualified sharpshooter. At 18 I was a member of a specialized unit tasked with locating and destroying enemy units and supply lines, at 19, in my primary function I commanded that unit with effective control of 3 battalions of heavy artillery and mortar units with the codes necessary to direct fire of everything up to and including tactical nuclear warheads. In my secondary function, I participated in an experimental program to rapidly deploy a small but highly effective fighting force on short notice, using 'unconventional' tactics to gain the advantage over superior numbers.

The problem is not 'age', it is personal responsibility and discipline, neither of which magically appears at a particular physical age...in fact, many (so-called) 'adults' go to their graves having never attained a shred of either. The issue is a concerted societal pressure to NOT enforce discipline and personal responsibility in children from a young age, and the results have been poor. "Spare the rod, spoil the child" and "Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it." Though I do not believe that the 'Bible' is really the words of any 'god', I do think that there are parts of it that contain wisdom, handed down from practical experience, that is just as valid now as it was 5,000 years ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jowel View Post
The second way customers would be driven away is bigger than one may think. Think about it: if you go into a gas station or quick service restaurant and see bulletproof glass everywhere or a fortress with bars on every door and window, what is your perception of that business or the area it's located in? It's probably not going to be good:
"I'm in a dangerous neighborhood! I need to get out of here!"
"What kind of clientele does this place cater to, anyway?!"
The same perception issue would occur if a hotel customer gets wanded with a metal detector, or if there's a visible presence of high security, especially considering that they will not just be stopping for a few minutes and leaving but spending a night or several there.
Yep, treat me like that, and I will be taking my business elsewhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kapikap View Post
US hotel do not do this because of laws on the books. Even checking the trunk is invasion of privacy,like demanding to know what's in your bag or your pocket. I enjoy my freedom!

The reality is, if the bad guys really wanted to do harm, like walk into a hotel with 4 suitcases filled with the bad stuff , it won't be hard. The bellman will even bring the bag to your room for you...Bottem line, hotels are not going to pay for experts to work all day trying to stop bombs and guns. The average security will not be skilled enough to spot real threats.
Yes, you would need a very expensive force of Government employees acting as the 'enforcers' for private commercial concerns while getting the taxpayers to foot the bill so that the corporations don't have to, and *that* is never going to happen...oh, wait, I forgot about the TSA...nevermind...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-25-2018, 04:08 AM
 
1,528 posts, read 909,314 times
Reputation: 2062
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian_M View Post
I also think it's obvious (why hotels don't do this), but for a different reason. First, it's costly and the hotel owner has to absorb that, while costing more to install and operate they will ALSO drive customers away in 2 ways: first, the cost increase to cover the added cost of the "service" and second (probably a small portion) from people who don't want to deal with the hassle.

Seems like a HUGE thing to take on for what, one instance that it may have stopped if EVERY hotel had it in place? Or would that person just have opted for a Boston Marathon style bomb to achieve the same ends.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jowel View Post
The second way customers would be driven away is bigger than one may think. Think about it: if you go into a gas station or quick service restaurant and see bulletproof glass everywhere or a fortress with bars on every door and window, what is your perception of that business or the area it's located in? It's probably not going to be good:
"I'm in a dangerous neighborhood! I need to get out of here!"
"What kind of clientele does this place cater to, anyway?!"
The same perception issue would occur if a hotel customer gets wanded with a metal detector, or if there's a visible presence of high security, especially considering that they will not just be stopping for a few minutes and leaving but spending a night or several there.
I assume that the question is more about the practice becoming wide-spread rather than customers choosing high security/high hassle vs no hassle. People adapt to just about anything: Very tight and invasive airport security, airline cost cuts creating poor service and often hideous delays, stifling traffic, major fluctuations in gas prices. Gas shortages/long lines/rationing in the 1970s. Sorting your trash and recycling, decades ago tolls were installed on roads where you had to wait in huge lines, 'self service' of all kinds - check out in stores, ATM machines, etc. Ridiculous education costs, long waits for healthcare. College costing 70k per year.

My point is that we could have imagined that people would simply not accept any of those things. I don't see what's so different about increased security in hotels and elsewhere, particularly if the increased security is triggered by one or more catastrophic events where people feel that it's necessary.

I don't agree that we will see airport style security at hotels nor do I think it's needed, however, I would not underestimate the public's ability to accept it if it ever does become widespread.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-25-2018, 09:45 AM
 
Location: San Francisco
317 posts, read 237,814 times
Reputation: 218
A lot of it is typical American response to security and privacy issues. As I write this I am on holiday for a few days in Cairo.pyramids museums hotels and even coffee shops have security and the police. Many locals accept this - considering the alternative of crazies or.Muslim.brotherhood attacking.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-25-2018, 01:32 PM
 
13,942 posts, read 7,429,050 times
Reputation: 25448
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmlandis View Post
A lot of it is typical American response to security and privacy issues. As I write this I am on holiday for a few days in Cairo.pyramids museums hotels and even coffee shops have security and the police. Many locals accept this - considering the alternative of crazies or.Muslim.brotherhood attacking.
No. The typical security response in the US is to hassle people who pose absolutely no security risk because itís politically incorrect to profile people. You shake down the 80 year old lady for a water bottle in her handbag. And the person doing the shaking down has an 80 IQ and is incapable of being a dog catcher. Bagging groceries might be a stretch.

Try security in Israel. Mandatory service. The smart ones do airport security. Iíve had easier job interviews than the screening questions in Tel Aviv and Iím a 6í2Ē Brown/blue obvious American.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-25-2018, 01:41 PM
 
2,980 posts, read 2,708,437 times
Reputation: 5631
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmlandis View Post
A lot of it is typical American response to security and privacy issues. As I write this I am on holiday for a few days in Cairo.pyramids museums hotels and even coffee shops have security and the police. Many locals accept this - considering the alternative of crazies or.Muslim.brotherhood attacking.
No, it is not just typical American response. Have you read about what has gone on in Egypt in the past 40 years? That is why all that security and the locals there gladly accept it. Here it is unnecessary because we don't have those people.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-25-2018, 01:42 PM
 
2,980 posts, read 2,708,437 times
Reputation: 5631
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
No. The typical security response in the US is to hassle people who pose absolutely no security risk because it’s politically incorrect to profile people. You shake down the 80 year old lady for a water bottle in her handbag. And the person doing the shaking down has an 80 IQ and is incapable of being a dog catcher. Bagging groceries might be a stretch.

Try security in Israel. Mandatory service. The smart ones do airport security. I’ve had easier job interviews than the screening questions in Tel Aviv and I’m a 6’2” Brown/blue obvious American.
Please don't insult dog catchers and grocery baggers. People that I have met in those professions all have much higher intelligence than TSA agents.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Travel
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top