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Old 05-16-2018, 09:50 AM
 
Location: Miami-Jax
6,312 posts, read 6,962,789 times
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Are there any on this site? Either in the real sense (renouncing citizenship, lacking any PR status) or just as someone who is continuously moving and not spending the majority of a year in one place??

Just curious...I have considered this often. Not the true PT following flag theory as I don't think I would ever renounce my US citizenship, but just spending several years traveling the globe.

Here is a description of the concept.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_traveler
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Old 05-16-2018, 10:42 AM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
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This leaves your description quite open "not spending the majority of a year in one place?"

Many are in FT RV status (mobile), the cruise ship 'retirees / eldercare', and many more of us (international and US / Canada residents) just keep on the move, so are not in a particular domicile the 'majority of the year'. Such as keeping on the move to remain tax status exempt in areas we are not keen on paying taxes and complicating our filings. I would guess hundreds of thousands do this to avoid CA and NY income taxes.! I just make sure I am not anywhere particular for over 180 days/yr (but rules vary for states and countries). While in Thailand, and other countries I need to leave as often as once every 30 days, and be SURE I do not accumulate 183+ days within any one country.

RV's typically use income tax free SD as domicile (SD only requires a ONE OVERNIGHT per LIFETIME! to claim SD residency.) I will switch mine to SD when my Passport / GE / Sentri / EDL expire. Perpetual USA travelers often set up a MT LLC to own and register vehicles (no sales tax, no inspections(Emission or Safety), lifetime plates on some vehicles).

If you want to retain your US Citizenship, it might be best to domicile and have your businesses in a US Protectorate.

For USA medical healthcare cost refugees, there can be advantages to domicile outside the USA.

We are not really PT (perpetual tourists / travelers)
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Old 05-16-2018, 11:33 AM
 
Location: Miami-Jax
6,312 posts, read 6,962,789 times
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Hey Stealth!! I knew you were one of those who falls under this broad category. In fact I think yours is the model I am most likely to emulate in the future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post
Many are in FT RV status (mobile), the cruise ship 'retirees / eldercare', and many more of us (international and US / Canada residents) just keep on the move, so are not in a particular domicile the 'majority of the year'.
I know many of you exist I was just wondering about on these forums. I just noticed the RV section so that would indicate there are at least many forumers doing that on this continent lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post
RV's typically use income tax free SD as domicile (SD only requires a ONE OVERNIGHT per LIFETIME! to claim SD residency.) I will switch mine to SD when my Passport / GE / Sentri / EDL expire. Perpetual USA travelers often set up a MT LLC to own and register vehicles (no sales tax, no inspections(Emission or Safety), lifetime plates on some vehicles).

If you want to retain your US Citizenship, it might be best to domicile and have your businesses in a US Protectorate.

For USA medical healthcare cost refugees, there can be advantages to domicile outside the USA.
Good info! Can you elaborate on the medical cost advantages for domiciling outside the US? Are you just referring to cheaper medical procedures overseas, or is there some kind of tax loophole?
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Old 05-16-2018, 12:25 PM
 
Location: North Idaho
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All you have to do is to figure out how to pay for it.
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Old 05-16-2018, 02:07 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oregonwoodsmoke View Post
All you have to do is to figure out how to pay for it.
We travel FT for less than our USA Property Tax and HC costs. Food / sustenance is pretty similar while traveling.

You can do it very cheap. Follow the lead of the thousands of European youth under age 31 doing NZ and Australia. (their work visas require some AG participation, 25% IIRC)

Our last yr away cost ~$40k, of which 50% was transportation (usually camper or car rentals). Next time we will buy 'used' in region. ~ $3k capital then resell.

As with saving for retirement / pension / having investment income... REPLACE your wage income with a passive / non-participation income and you are free to leave / come / go.

If you are not a Trust Fund Baby... The best bet for QUICK entry into PT would be a successful start-up company that gets bought out with retained contribution or a revenue generating licensed product (plenty of teenagers doing that! with Apps and Games).

To build the wealth required, takes a bit more time, but very possible.

For us, it was building a CHEAP rental income portfolio (bought first house at age 19).
Then rolling IRA / DFPS into LLC held investment props (you are your own bank and property owner), cash flows are quite high (over age 59.5 you can take distributions).

To do over... I would have started a few businesses as a kid and sold them or hired managers, or swapped to a franchise model. Lifelong income. no personal effort (as in hours or presence) required. My dad had (4) employees(truck drivers) by the time he was age 14, and went on to have 7 -10 businesses, a few of which are still churning out profits 50 yrs later. (his farmer / ice business hit rough times when farms got electricity, so he switched to refrigerated Bulk Milk tank and collection business... so you need to adapt.

Today... I would own a few tire / brake / muffler stores (less internet erosion).
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Old 05-16-2018, 02:20 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
22,537 posts, read 39,914,033 times
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For medical coverage, the ExPat websites can guide you, but some Countries will allow you to join their national coverage with extended visa rather than foreign resident visa. For $20k / yr potential reduction in insurance costs alone worth considering (not including huge reduction in actual care expenses also),

Patients beyond borders can help tabulate ‘medical tourism expenses’.

USA has left us with few choices...
$20k + premiums alone
Subsidized via A(?)CA (if you qualify)
HC sharing (not insurance)

Leave
Die.
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Old 05-16-2018, 07:00 PM
 
Location: Cebu, Philippines
4,366 posts, read 1,660,383 times
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If you renounce your citizenship, you don't go anywhere until you coerce somebody into issuing you a passport. That is pretty extreme, and few people have done it.

I've met quite a few travelers who rarely if ever go "home". But wherever you are, you are under the jurisdiction of some country or other, and need to meet their visa requirements.

When traveling, I never thought about health issues. Keep yourself healthy (traveling is by itself invigorating exercise). Expose your immune system, get lifetime resistance to bugs. The only way you can afford the lifestyle is by sticking to third world countries, and medical care there is very cheap.

Not counting plane fare, I consider my overseas on-the-ground budget to be about a thousand dollars a month, day to day with no fixed base. So if you have $12K a year in outside income, it is no problem at all. It's hard to find a new place every day for $30 a day, but the trick is to find a really cheap place ans settle in for a while. Give your budget a chance to catch up.

(OP: What do PR and PT mean?)
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Old 05-17-2018, 10:01 AM
 
Location: Miami-Jax
6,312 posts, read 6,962,789 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oregonwoodsmoke View Post
All you have to do is to figure out how to pay for it.
Most PT I've seen are either already wealthy (hence motivated to avoid tax) or mobile workers (like programmers, import/export, marketing/sales, etc). As I mentioned, I don't plan to REALLY do this, but perhaps would take an international travel year (or two), in which case our real estate investments should cover us. However there is a good chance we will start an online business to operate on the road as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post
For medical coverage, the ExPat websites can guide you, but some Countries will allow you to join their national coverage with extended visa rather than foreign resident visa. For $20k / yr potential reduction in insurance costs alone worth considering (not including huge reduction in actual care expenses also),

Patients beyond borders can help tabulate ‘medical tourism expenses’.

USA has left us with few choices...
$20k + premiums alone
Subsidized via A(?)CA (if you qualify)
HC sharing (not insurance)

Leave
Die.
Thanks for the tips. Will have to look into those websites.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cebuan View Post
If you renounce your citizenship, you don't go anywhere until you coerce somebody into issuing you a passport. That is pretty extreme, and few people have done it.
No, flag theory model is that you renounce your citizenship once you have a second citizenship established. And you would be moving from a worse tax system to a better one. There are generally considered to be 4 or 5 tiers and you ideally want to end up in a territorial tax system with your income and assets based elsewhere. US system is the worst so for Americans if you can get citizenship anywhere else it is an improvement. US taxes all of its citizens around the world on all our income generated around the world. There is an exception for some citizens based outside the US but it is capped at a little over 100k, so if you are high income or wealthy they'll still get ya.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cebuan View Post
Not counting plane fare, I consider my overseas on-the-ground budget to be about a thousand dollars a month, day to day with no fixed base. So if you have $12K a year in outside income, it is no problem at all. It's hard to find a new place every day for $30 a day, but the trick is to find a really cheap place ans settle in for a while. Give your budget a chance to catch up.

(OP: What do PR and PT mean?)
That makes sense. And PR = Permanent Resident PT = Perpetual Traveler
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Old 05-19-2018, 07:27 PM
 
Location: On the road
5,922 posts, read 2,885,080 times
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My wife and I are perpetual travelers, we make it home to USA one or two times per year. We usually stay in a given country for at least a month, sometimes 3 months, sometimes longer depending. We're currently in Nicaragua.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post
If you want to retain your US Citizenship, it might be best to domicile and have your businesses in a US Protectorate.
No. There is nothing you can do with a business or domicile that will affect retention of your US citizenship. You have to go through great effort to renounce US citizenship.
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Old 05-19-2018, 11:18 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
22,537 posts, read 39,914,033 times
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Yes, of course... this is NOT business related, the question was citizenship, so.... those who LIKE to retain their US citizenship, and live FT internationally, and improve their personal and business tax situation ... can do so by domiciling in and registering their businesses in a US protectorate (While of course retaining their coveted US citizenship.)

Many online businesses do this.

very basic site (no business advice)
http://nomadcapitalist.com/2017/07/0...-pay-no-taxes/
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