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Old 05-08-2019, 04:46 PM
 
978 posts, read 299,055 times
Reputation: 2136

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Quote:
Originally Posted by katnip kid View Post
Yet for some of us gay men, people seem to figure it out fast. Straight appearing doesn't describe us all. And we then are identified as a group. It is a label that then restricts my traveling to many places. As for that nobody will even care, that cannot be said about Russia, or many Islamic nations. You are aware of how gays just living their lives are treated in Russia? Russia is a country I would have liked to have visited. Not now.
My son spent a month in Russia - St. Petersburg and Moscow. If you aren't holding hands or soliciting sex, Russia doesn't care if you are gay. He went into an openly gay bar. Even in neighborhood around the gay bar, no one cared.

Most of what you hear about Russia is propaganda.
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Old 05-09-2019, 03:13 AM
 
Location: Honolulu
1,068 posts, read 1,468,798 times
Reputation: 2355
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodHombre View Post
I'm sorry for your experience but it sounds very unusual.

Without knowing the details from both sides, it's hard to say what caused your negative experience, I doubt it has anything to do with speaking English. Given that your wife speaks the language, you shouldn't need to worry about the language barrier. You also didn't really try to ask for help from locals who actually speak English, but you just "feel" they won't help you.

While the Chinese are not known to be considerate, full-blown conflicts are rather rare. There is a lot of Japanese living in Shanghai who don't speak much Mandarin and they are doing just fine.

To be honest, being Asian isn't really a bad thing as a tourist. Standing out doesn't only attract help but also street vendors trying to sell you stuff you don't want.
Yes it is unusual, if all the experiences you've ever heard about China came from people who were of a different demographic than me. Have you ever heard from someone like me about their experience in China? I've talked to other Asians who've had similar experiences like mine.

It's not A negative experience, it's MULTIPLE negatives experiences. Again, you doubt it's because I only spoke English because you've probably never heard from someone like me. Ex. if a white person is in China, people sometimes want to practice their English with them and be friendly with them. Well that doesn't apply to someone like me. Just the opposite in fact. Would you really want to be tethered to your wife 24/7 without having the ability to communicate with anyone else for weeks on end? I think not. Actually I did try to ask multiple locals (mainly younger people) for help when I first went to China about 10 years ago. That was when I was naive and ignorant. I had no preconceptions about China, I'd never even been out of the country at the time. I thought if I asked nicely and explained I didn't speak Chinese people would at least give me directions. Boy was I very wrong. They usually just ignored me, gave me a dirty look and walked away, or yelled at me in Chinese. Eventually I just gave up.

Japanese in Shanghai probably deal a lot with their own people, speak some Mandarin, and are living in the most international city in China. I never been to Shanghai so maybe it would be different than what I've experienced.

I'd much rather stand out as a white person in China then be in my shoes. All the frustration a non-Asian foreigner feels in China is multiplied by 10 with me. In America we like to think if we treat others with respect it will be returned to us, character matters not skin color. Well in China that's often not true. You are definitely judged on the color of your skin.

Let me also add that despite my negative experiences in China I've also met many good Chinese, mainly here in the US. So while I've probably had enough of visiting China, I'd still judge people individually after getting to know them.
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Old 05-09-2019, 08:57 AM
 
Location: Tulsa
1,804 posts, read 805,408 times
Reputation: 1839
Quote:
Originally Posted by WannabeCPA View Post
Yes it is unusual, if all the experiences you've ever heard about China came from people who were of a different demographic than me. Have you ever heard from someone like me about their experience in China? I've talked to other Asians who've had similar experiences like mine.

It's not A negative experience, it's MULTIPLE negatives experiences. Again, you doubt it's because I only spoke English because you've probably never heard from someone like me. Ex. if a white person is in China, people sometimes want to practice their English with them and be friendly with them. Well that doesn't apply to someone like me. Just the opposite in fact. Would you really want to be tethered to your wife 24/7 without having the ability to communicate with anyone else for weeks on end? I think not. Actually I did try to ask multiple locals (mainly younger people) for help when I first went to China about 10 years ago. That was when I was naive and ignorant. I had no preconceptions about China, I'd never even been out of the country at the time. I thought if I asked nicely and explained I didn't speak Chinese people would at least give me directions. Boy was I very wrong. They usually just ignored me, gave me a dirty look and walked away, or yelled at me in Chinese. Eventually I just gave up.

Japanese in Shanghai probably deal a lot with their own people, speak some Mandarin, and are living in the most international city in China. I never been to Shanghai so maybe it would be different than what I've experienced.

I'd much rather stand out as a white person in China then be in my shoes. All the frustration a non-Asian foreigner feels in China is multiplied by 10 with me. In America we like to think if we treat others with respect it will be returned to us, character matters not skin color. Well in China that's often not true. You are definitely judged on the color of your skin.

Let me also add that despite my negative experiences in China I've also met many good Chinese, mainly here in the US. So while I've probably had enough of visiting China, I'd still judge people individually after getting to know them.
So, what if you don't try to talk to people in China? Strangers rarely talk to each other for no reason and eye contacts are very rare in China. In China, the trust level between strangers is very low and many are unfriendly to strangers. If someone on the street tries to borrow your cell phone, you have to be cautious, maybe he wants to take your phone and run away. However, suppose you are attending a conference and you try to ask a random Chinese for help, you won't be turned down not because people assume all the attendees are pre-screened and not likely to be some kind of criminals.

Being from China, I don't know any Chinese who is hostile to Asians(which would be ridiculous, Chinese would end up hating each other because Chinese are Asian, chaos!). Having lived in the U.S long enough, I don't think skin color doesn't matter in the U.S(maybe white conservatives believe so). Hawaii has its fair share of racial tension.

Are you east Asian? We don't consider Indians to be Asian.

I'll be perfectly honest, people take race/nationality into consideration in China, at least before having the chance to know the individual personally. Among all foreigners, Japanese are favored most followed by South Korean. Back when I was in HS, we had a classmate from Cambodia but he spoke enough Chinese and we didn't treat him differently. As a landlord, my father prefers Japanese/Korean as tenants to white people because they have a good reputation for being quiet, courteous and hygienic.

Sure, white people have a lot of advantages in China for reasons you stated, and I'm not going to get into details. But we consider other East Asians to be our own kind and less foreign. I can't speak for small towns you visited, but in Shanghai, we do have stereotypes but it's rarely against Asians. Japanese/Koreans in China don't have a bad track record, Japanese/Koreans neighborhoods are among the best in Shanghai and locals flock there for authentic Japanse food. On the other hand, some white people from western countries took advantage of Chinese's friendliness and did stupid things, some white people from Russia are engaged in illegal activities in China from prostitution to theft. In Guangzhou, there are tens of thousands of illegal Africans.

Again, I'm not questioning your bad experiences, I rarely travel in China because I hate the inconsiderate people smoking on the street. It's a third world country, you really should do some research before you booked the flights. It's a tough place to live, not paradise Hawaii. it wouldn't surprise me if 9 out of 10 tourists from developed countries reported bad experience.

But I don't find your race theory based on your very limited experience and understanding of China agreeable.
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Old 05-09-2019, 07:56 PM
 
978 posts, read 299,055 times
Reputation: 2136
Quote:
Originally Posted by WannabeCPA View Post
It's not A negative experience, it's MULTIPLE negatives experiences. Again, you doubt it's because I only spoke English because you've probably never heard from someone like me. Ex. if a white person is in China, people sometimes want to practice their English with them and be friendly with them. Well that doesn't apply to someone like me. Just the opposite in fact. Would you really want to be tethered to your wife 24/7 without having the ability to communicate with anyone else for weeks on end? I think not. Actually I did try to ask multiple locals (mainly younger people) for help when I first went to China about 10 years ago. That was when I was naive and ignorant. I had no preconceptions about China, I'd never even been out of the country at the time. I thought if I asked nicely and explained I didn't speak Chinese people would at least give me directions. Boy was I very wrong. They usually just ignored me, gave me a dirty look and walked away, or yelled at me in Chinese. Eventually I just gave up.
Evidentially, Chinese from mainland China and Hong Kong don't get along culturally and there is a great deal of animosity. If you look Chinese but speak English, it could play into this.

I totally believe WannabeCPA.
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Old 05-11-2019, 12:51 AM
 
Location: Honolulu
1,068 posts, read 1,468,798 times
Reputation: 2355
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodHombre View Post
So, what if you don't try to talk to people in China? Strangers rarely talk to each other for no reason and eye contacts are very rare in China. In China, the trust level between strangers is very low and many are unfriendly to strangers. If someone on the street tries to borrow your cell phone, you have to be cautious, maybe he wants to take your phone and run away. However, suppose you are attending a conference and you try to ask a random Chinese for help, you won't be turned down not because people assume all the attendees are pre-screened and not likely to be some kind of criminals.

Being from China, I don't know any Chinese who is hostile to Asians(which would be ridiculous, Chinese would end up hating each other because Chinese are Asian, chaos!). Having lived in the U.S long enough, I don't think skin color doesn't matter in the U.S(maybe white conservatives believe so). Hawaii has its fair share of racial tension.

Are you east Asian? We don't consider Indians to be Asian.

I'll be perfectly honest, people take race/nationality into consideration in China, at least before having the chance to know the individual personally. Among all foreigners, Japanese are favored most followed by South Korean. Back when I was in HS, we had a classmate from Cambodia but he spoke enough Chinese and we didn't treat him differently. As a landlord, my father prefers Japanese/Korean as tenants to white people because they have a good reputation for being quiet, courteous and hygienic.

Sure, white people have a lot of advantages in China for reasons you stated, and I'm not going to get into details. But we consider other East Asians to be our own kind and less foreign. I can't speak for small towns you visited, but in Shanghai, we do have stereotypes but it's rarely against Asians. Japanese/Koreans in China don't have a bad track record, Japanese/Koreans neighborhoods are among the best in Shanghai and locals flock there for authentic Japanse food. On the other hand, some white people from western countries took advantage of Chinese's friendliness and did stupid things, some white people from Russia are engaged in illegal activities in China from prostitution to theft. In Guangzhou, there are tens of thousands of illegal Africans.

Again, I'm not questioning your bad experiences, I rarely travel in China because I hate the inconsiderate people smoking on the street. It's a third world country, you really should do some research before you booked the flights. It's a tough place to live, not paradise Hawaii. it wouldn't surprise me if 9 out of 10 tourists from developed countries reported bad experience.

But I don't find your race theory based on your very limited experience and understanding of China agreeable.
I totally agree with your first paragraph. However, that's not what I'm addressing here. If you're visiting another country that you're not familiar with, isn't it conceivable, probably even expected that there will come a time when you simply want to ask for directions, or maybe order something at a fast food restaurant. Or maybe ask where the bakery is in a supermarket? I'm not looking to start conversations, just asking things I think typical visitors would ask. My contention is that I know I'm treated worse than a non-asian person would be. I've seen Chinese be very helpful to white visitors, but I've never experienced that.

I am East Asian and I look like the native population in China. I totally disagree with your statement about Chinese not being hostile to other Asians. Happens all the time. Even towards other Chinese. I've had native Chinese in the US tell me they don't like Koreans, Japanese, Cantonese, Chinese from certain provinces, etc. Chinese people generally treat other Chinese, except those they know, like dirt.

The only reason I went is because my wife is from there. I'm sure it's not the worst place to visit, as they have many historical sites which I like, as well as being a safe country but how could I have expected to be treated the way I was? Being naive that I was, I at least expected people there to treat me the way I treated them, however that was not the case many times. Paradise Hawaii? For many people living in China would be much easier than living in Hawaii. A week is paradise, after that you may change your mind. BTW Hawaii consistently every year has more people moving to other US states than people from other US states moving to Hawaii. Must not be paradise for a lot of people.

Ok we disagree. I don't expect a lot of Chinese from China to look at things through the same lens as me. Though we may look alike on the outside, I'm sure we have many differences in culture and thinking. Truthfully the one thing that discourages me from visiting again is the people. Everything else I can handle: the low air quality, the smoking, driving conditions, etc. I like travelling. I just wish the people were more agreeable there so I wouldn't hesitate in going back. If you ever meet an Asian who only speaks English and who's visited China, try to ask them about their experience there. It's very likely they traveled with someone who could speak the language or they'd be totally lost.

Last edited by WannabeCPA; 05-11-2019 at 01:00 AM..
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Old 05-11-2019, 11:39 AM
 
Location: North Idaho
22,668 posts, read 28,685,250 times
Reputation: 43679
I've got no issues traveling alone, but I would stay out of India, because that isn't a safe place for single females, not that I want to go to India, anyway. I can go to San Francisco to see people lying in the gutter and pooping on the sidewalk; no reason to fly halfway across the world.


I'd also stay out of any strict Muslim countries, because I am a woman, or any place having terrorist hotel bombings, because they aren't safe for anyone.



There are some countries in Africa I don't want to go to. And North Korea. Those don't have anything to do with being female. No one is safe there.
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Old 05-11-2019, 05:07 PM
 
Location: Australia
895 posts, read 328,471 times
Reputation: 1649
Quote:
Originally Posted by WannabeCPA View Post
I totally agree with your first paragraph. However, that's not what I'm addressing here. If you're visiting another country that you're not familiar with, isn't it conceivable, probably even expected that there will come a time when you simply want to ask for directions, or maybe order something at a fast food restaurant. Or maybe ask where the bakery is in a supermarket? I'm not looking to start conversations, just asking things I think typical visitors would ask. My contention is that I know I'm treated worse than a non-asian person would be. I've seen Chinese be very helpful to white visitors, but I've never experienced that.

I am East Asian and I look like the native population in China. I totally disagree with your statement about Chinese not being hostile to other Asians. Happens all the time. Even towards other Chinese. I've had native Chinese in the US tell me they don't like Koreans, Japanese, Cantonese, Chinese from certain provinces, etc. Chinese people generally treat other Chinese, except those they know, like dirt.

The only reason I went is because my wife is from there. I'm sure it's not the worst place to visit, as they have many historical sites which I like, as well as being a safe country but how could I have expected to be treated the way I was? Being naive that I was, I at least expected people there to treat me the way I treated them, however that was not the case many times. Paradise Hawaii? For many people living in China would be much easier than living in Hawaii. A week is paradise, after that you may change your mind. BTW Hawaii consistently every year has more people moving to other US states than people from other US states moving to Hawaii. Must not be paradise for a lot of people.

Ok we disagree. I don't expect a lot of Chinese from China to look at things through the same lens as me. Though we may look alike on the outside, I'm sure we have many differences in culture and thinking. Truthfully the one thing that discourages me from visiting again is the people. Everything else I can handle: the low air quality, the smoking, driving conditions, etc. I like travelling. I just wish the people were more agreeable there so I wouldn't hesitate in going back. If you ever meet an Asian who only speaks English and who's visited China, try to ask them about their experience there. It's very likely they traveled with someone who could speak the language or they'd be totally lost.
The second time we went to China it was with a small tour group and was only in the southern region near Hong Kong. China was only just opening up to tourism at that stage and our group attracted a lot of curiosity. The stars were an American who was at least 6'6ins and me, who is red headed. Everyone wanted to take photos of us, touch us etc.

However there were two Australians in the group who were English speaking and of Chinese heritage, with ancestors from one of the more minor language groups (cannot remember which) So they had to try to communicate in English and they talked about how people were surprised at their situation. Whether they experienced hostility rather than surprise, they did not say.

We love travelling in China, though I do agree the smoke can be a challenge. Mind you it was also in France last year. We find the people very helpful. They love using their translation apps on their phones and even when we were there two years ago they still wanted to take photos with us.
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Old 05-11-2019, 08:27 PM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
17,234 posts, read 19,531,226 times
Reputation: 12985
Quote:
Originally Posted by oregonwoodsmoke View Post
I've got no issues traveling alone, but I would stay out of India, because that isn't a safe place for single females.
Men and women in India have normal, healthy relationships 99.99% of the time - just like everywhere else.

Don’t believe the lies and propaganda in the media.
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