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Old 05-15-2019, 09:40 PM
 
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
7,316 posts, read 4,154,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cebuan View Post
Most of us don't click blind links without a hint what it's going to.
The link is going to a recently-published National Geographic article on tourism involving animals, and it well worth reading.
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Old 05-15-2019, 11:49 PM
 
Location: Cebu, Philippines
4,392 posts, read 1,666,771 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aredhel View Post
The link is going to a recently-published National Geographic article on tourism involving animals, and it well worth reading.

Does the article reach any conclusions, that you can pass along to me so I can be better informed without reading it? So far, this is still just a teaser. Tell me what the article says, then link to it if I want to see the evidence.
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Old 05-16-2019, 12:04 AM
 
Location: On the road
5,936 posts, read 2,888,852 times
Reputation: 11351
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aredhel View Post
The link is going to a recently-published National Geographic article on tourism involving animals, and it well worth reading.
Apparently he's interested enough to keep posting in this thread, forming opinions, asking questions, etc. yet can't be bothered (or lacks the curiosity) to actually read something on the subject that might make him more informed unless you spoon feed it to him.
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Old 05-16-2019, 12:38 AM
 
Location: NYC
2,907 posts, read 1,585,473 times
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The video gives one something to think about, I went to that touristic elephant "training camp" on my first visit to Chiang Mai about 25 years ago & rode around on the elephants, watched the show, etc.. I never really knew much about the situation there other than there were a lot of elephants "unemployed" by the timber industry & this gave them a home with food.

I know there was/is an issue with mahouts deserting the beasts because of this, this was typically a handed-down family skill & a lifetime commitment between mahout & elephant but when the jobs ran out many mahouts simply abandoned the elephants who were dependent on humans for food, etc., & I think there were some issues with elephants reacting badly in populated areas.

I also remember on that first visit when my airport shuttle in Phuket stopped first at the luxe Amari Hotel, a doorman dressed in a spotless white ornate uniform with white pith helmet took out the bags & put them on the ground & a tiny baby elephant grabbed the handle with his trunk & they all marched in line towards the front door.

Also that trip or another soon after, I was walking back to my Bangkok hotel very late one night on Soi Sukhumvit & as I turned onto a side soi I ended up right behind a mature elephant lumbering down the street with a red light attached to his tail & his mahout beside. I could only imagine they were coming from some bar district where the holiday farangs paid to feed Dumbo. I imagined the mahout had an area somewhere within the city where he & the elephant could sleep each night.

I do remember on other visits in the 90's seeing smaller elephants going bar-beer to bar-beer with the mahout selling bananas & getting the animal to do a trick or two for the punters. There were also touts with large eagles & the requisite pythons for photos too.
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Old 05-16-2019, 05:34 AM
 
Location: World
3,657 posts, read 3,519,208 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cebuan View Post
In India, I saw men riding their work elephants. Why would they walk beside their ride?


In Addis Ababa, my hotel was being expanded, and the cement blocks were delivered on donkey-back, a whole train of them. Most neighborhood streets there cannot accommodate trucks, and small contractors can't afford them.. They use work animals, despite the tsk-tsk of vacationing American suburbanites and their comfortable newsfeed morality.

Some Temple / religious trust purchase Elephants. A mahout will ride the elephant while some another member will walk. Their job is to literally beg all day in the city for food, money. They go from house to house. children become attracted with elephants and come running. People click photos and the memmber walking will then collect money. Their target is to collect 500 Rupees in one day. In return , elephant food will cost around 100 rupees per day and 400 is the income for that temple staff.





By contrast, elephants in tourist trade are given better food and proper care as they earn more, families of mahout take better care including medical care.



if tourist rides in elephants is stopped, they will end up begging with the monks on the streets.
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Old 05-16-2019, 07:28 AM
 
Location: Cebu, Philippines
4,392 posts, read 1,666,771 times
Reputation: 7992
Quote:
Originally Posted by lieqiang View Post
Apparently he's interested enough to keep posting in this thread, forming opinions, asking questions, etc. yet can't be bothered (or lacks the curiosity) to actually read something on the subject that might make him more informed unless you spoon feed it to him.

I can't be bothered reading EVERYthing on a subject. I'm just asking for one line of context to help me be selective. Three posters have now vouched for its importance, but none will take a half a minute to write a short summary of the thrust of its position.


All those in favor of blind link, raise your hand. It seems to be a lot of you defending one.
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Old 05-16-2019, 07:35 AM
 
Location: North State (California)
39,503 posts, read 2,978,735 times
Reputation: 12891
the link was fine.
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Old 05-16-2019, 08:12 AM
 
6,308 posts, read 3,572,105 times
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I can't defend the practice personally because I have an unreasonably tender heart and I have a tendency to attribute my own thoughts and feelings to animals. Especially bright animals.

I understand this is a less than scientific approach but I remember in high school biology when the instructor told us animals don't have feelings and I was nearly certain he had never owned a dog.

They certainly seem to express shame, anger, happiness from my perspective. I have also since seen caged wild animals which seem to have developed mental illness. It's truly horrifying for anyone with empathy to observe.

I'd always wanted to swim with dolphins yet when I traveled to an area where it was available and I saw how it was done I had no interest in participating. I felt sorry for them.

That said I'd like to say a word about owning cats all my life. There are behaviors I expect of my cats which are not particularly in their nature. And yet, they need to have "manners" in order to be a good pet. I have also taught a number of my cats through the years to do "silly tricks." It makes me and others enjoy them and I'd like to think that the cat gets some satisfaction in knowing that she has pleased me. Since I have only used positive reinforcement to train them I know they are not acting out of fear of being hurt.

I've never had a cat run away in over sixty years and all of them have appeared to enjoy our relationship enough to greet me in the morning or when I come into the house and to sit in my lap in the evening to be petted and scratched. And yet these were once little wild creatures who adjusted to hunting mice in Egypt for the grain growers and develop what I hope was a mutually satisfactory relationship.

I can scarcely believe that every elephant caregiver is cruel and exploitative any more than I can believe that every elephant is suffering in the relationship. Animals, like people, are capable of adapting to what they have.
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Old 05-16-2019, 08:58 AM
 
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
598 posts, read 160,437 times
Reputation: 907
Some people should not ride any kind of animal...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8G6O9Zpo64

and just stay in the back of the pickup truck!
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Old 05-16-2019, 09:26 AM
 
12,284 posts, read 18,401,528 times
Reputation: 19117
Quote:
Originally Posted by munna21977 View Post
Some Temple / religious trust purchase Elephants. A mahout will ride the elephant while some another member will walk. Their job is to literally beg all day in the city for food, money. They go from house to house. children become attracted with elephants and come running. People click photos and the memmber walking will then collect money. Their target is to collect 500 Rupees in one day. In return , elephant food will cost around 100 rupees per day and 400 is the income for that temple staff.


By contrast, elephants in tourist trade are given better food and proper care as they earn more, families of mahout take better care including medical care.

if tourist rides in elephants is stopped, they will end up begging with the monks on the streets.
No, the lesser of two evils is not a solution. Both sounds pretty bad. In general, Elephants used in tourism are kept alive, that's about it. Their treatement and quality of life is not better. Simple solution - stop both.
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