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Old 05-18-2019, 06:16 AM
 
2,076 posts, read 703,003 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
The UAE, particularly Dubai is a major regional hub. They have built a number of impressive things in order to draw in tourists. It largely depends on what one is after. Huge malls, theme parks, first class accomodation, public events... Not too much for those looking for history, though there are a few gems scattered around.
And those big, splashy edifices are built by people from poorer countries who are practically held captive and paid very little. No, I don't want to visit them.

I understand that there are barbarous things going on in most countries. My issue with Saudi Arabia and others dominated by Islam is that they're built into the laws. I've been to India. I know that women don't have it all that great, especially in the lower classes- not due to what's encoded into laws but due to culture, and it's changing. Sati, mentioned earlier, was outlawed over 100 years ago. I won't say it never happens but when I saw cremations on the banks of the Ganges it didn't.

As a woman who can afford travel because I was given equal access to jobs, education, property rights, and was able to have an alcoholic, verbally-abusive husband removed from the house and divorce him, I don't want to spend my travel budget in places where women don't have those rights. There are plenty of other wonderful and interesting places to visit in this world.
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Old 05-18-2019, 07:02 AM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,353 posts, read 24,084,481 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitey View Post
When the hell did Oman and Jordan become big tourist destinations? Who's going there and why? ...
Jordan has the hot springs of Ma'in. It's the equivalent of the Dead Sea in Israel for half the price with better amenities and much less people trying to empty your pockets. At the low prices it has, it's worth the low prices to stay for a week or two. I do every year for the P&Q.

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Re...vernorate.html
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Old 05-18-2019, 07:35 AM
 
978 posts, read 298,329 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
Jordan has the hot springs of Ma'in. It's the equivalent of the Dead Sea in Israel for half the price with better amenities and much less people trying to empty your pockets. At the low prices it has, it's worth the low prices to stay for a week or two. I do every year for the P&Q.

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Re...vernorate.html
Jordan also has Catholic Churches and a Catholic minority. There are currently 33 Latin Catholic parishes in Jordan. Melkite Greek Catholic Church has 28 parishes, Syrian Catholics have 3 parishes and Armenian Catholics has 2 churches. There are 66 Catholic parishes in all Jordan, belonging to four Catholic traditions.

Saudi Arabia doesn't.

I know someone who lived in Saudi Arabia for a few years with his family. His son had a box of Playmobile. The Saudi authorities went through the box and threw out the Playmobile nativity pieces.

Wikipedia: Saudi Arabia allows Catholics and Christians of other denominations to enter the country as foreign workers for temporary work, but does not allow them to practise their faith openly. As a result, Catholics and Christians of other denominations generally only worship in secret within private homes.[1] Items and articles belonging to religions other than Islam are prohibited.[2] These include Bibles, crucifixes, statues, carvings, items with religious symbols, and others, although the government's stated policy was that such items were allowed for private religious purposes.

International Christian Concern (ICC) protested what it reported as the 2001 detention of 11 Christians in Saudi Arabia, for practicing their religion in their homes.[9] In June 2004, at least 46 Christians were arrested in what the ICC described as a "pogrom-like" action by Saudi police. The arrests took place shortly after the media reported that a Quran had been desecrated in the Guantanamo Bay detention camp.[10]

Christians and other non-Muslims are prohibited from entering the city of Mecca and the central district of Medina. (i.e. in the vicinity inside of King Faisal Road "1st Ring Road") [7]
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Old 05-18-2019, 07:39 AM
 
978 posts, read 298,329 times
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Don't go to Saudi Arabia during Ramadan (the dates for Ramadan change year to year - like Easter)

"The most difficult thing may be to abstain from eating, drinking or smoking tobacco in public areas during the daytime, usually dawn until dusk. In many Muslim-majority countries such as Saudi Arabia, it’s illegal to eat or drink in a public area during daylight during Ramadan, and this is considered a crime and prosecuted as such. Police usually patrol the streets and offenders, both Muslim and non-Muslim, can get fined. There have been incidents in Gulf countries where foreigners were even expelled from the country while Muslims were jailed. So even where it is legal you should refrain, both to avoid calling unwelcome attention to yourself and as a gesture of respect for those who are fasting.

Avoid public physical intimacy with a person of the opposite sex, even if you are married to each other. Public displays of affection are considered rude and even forbidden by law in certain Muslim countries, and this is especially true during Ramadan. As for same-sex displays of affection, homosexuality is taboo or illegal in many Muslim areas; see LGBT travel for details. Even in more liberal areas, restraint may be a good idea at any time, and especially during Ramadan.

Everyone will be expected to dress more conservatively than normally, so ensure you dress modestly in public — always a good idea in Islamic areas, but particularly during the holy month of Ramadan. Uncovered arms, legs, shoulders or hair may offend others.

Try to not play loud music in public areas (including in a car) or dance during Ramadan, as it is seen as bad form.

Avoid chewing gum or smoking in public as well since these are also forbidden by the rules of the fast."

https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Trave...during_Ramadan
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Old 05-18-2019, 09:20 AM
 
Location: Nantahala National Forest, NC
27,093 posts, read 5,882,815 times
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Just don't go.
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Old 05-18-2019, 11:42 AM
 
9,872 posts, read 8,162,089 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elnina View Post
Well, you travel to foreign countries then you better learn about their laws and customs. If they chop off a hand for stealing, what made him think that stealing is OK and he will not be punished? Because he is an American citizen?
Punishment too hard? Perhaps. But it works. Is their country. Probably theft is very rare.
They do not go and pay a lawyer to lie and get them out of jail and waste the court, and taxpayers time and money.

BTW: I couldn't find that story on the Internet. Do you have a link to it?
1. The airman wasnít there by choice. He was there as part of his service.
2. We donít know if he really did steal or not. Laws and courts there favor the citizensí word over non-citizens. If a citizen accused him of stealing then heís guilty of stealing whether he did it or not. The standard of proof for conviction is far less than most western countries.
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Old 05-18-2019, 12:53 PM
 
Location: Central IL
15,201 posts, read 8,509,345 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elnina View Post
The point is that while some people don't travel to particular countries for whatever reason, it has not affected the general tourism. And we are talking about tourism, not "some" people who rather would stay at home.
I'm sure it hasn't affected REGIONAL tourism from nearby countries, especially those who are Muslims.

Has everyone forgotten "Midnight Express"? Similar issues just in Turkey.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0077928/
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Old 05-20-2019, 05:40 AM
 
32,060 posts, read 32,956,580 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aredhel View Post
The women can't leave. Got to have a male relative accompany you in order to exit the country.
Quote:
Originally Posted by victimofGM View Post
Men tightly control the women of their family. They’ve even developed apps to warn if one of their women is going outside a certain range or going to places he prohibited them from entering.
Although these rules only apply to local Saudi women, personally I don't think any Western woman should visit Saudi Arabia as a tourist.
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Old 05-20-2019, 07:15 AM
 
2,076 posts, read 703,003 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chava61 View Post
Although these rules only apply to local Saudi women, personally I don't think any Western woman should visit Saudi Arabia as a tourist.
That's one of the other things that alienates me. They'll violate their religious convictions and let me swim in the hotel pool in a standard swimsuit and serve me alcohol- for a hefty price. Hypocrisy.
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Old 05-20-2019, 09:46 AM
 
9,519 posts, read 13,436,132 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aredhel View Post
Of course. You are always subject the local laws of any country you visit. US legal protections end at the US border.

The US government can try to intercede with the foreign government if a US citizen is convicted of a crime in a foreign country, but the foreign nation is completely free to reject the US government's request and carry out whatever punishment their own legal system has assigned.

Still want to visit Saudi Arabia?
Not sure. I am hoping things get better there really, before I go … but @ the same time, I think awareness & understanding of the situations in other countries are crucial.


Not everyone is there a monster I'm sure … but it is pretty scary that they can basically 'arrest/detain' you for anything and you'd have no recourse.
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