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Old 04-18-2009, 11:06 AM
 
2,365 posts, read 10,393,407 times
Reputation: 690

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hungry For Cheese View Post
The airline did not mess up the seating. From what I read, the MIL screwed it up. Yeah the guy couldv'e been nice and moved, but perhaps he had good reason. Why should it be his fault? He was just sitting there waiting to get to his destination. As far as it annoying me, hey children are alright sometimes depending on the parent. My deal was that I had a seat alone, or w/o children that I picked out online by the window for my return flight. I ended up getting delayed for hours and once I finally got on the plane I decided to help out a mom and her kid (dad was sitting elsewhere) and instead of having an enjoyable somewhat quiet trip home, I got some bratty kid...all because I didn't do what this "business guy" did. Next time, I am playing the role of the business guy, or whoever it is that doesn't want some kid by him. Now if a kid just happens to be sitting there to begin with, that's fine, but to welcome it on, no thanks. I'm just sick of people thinking just because they have children they should be given special treatment. Same goes for the pregnant lady who has to stand...I got here first, my seat. I didn't get her pregnant. Sucks for her my feet hurt, I think I'll stay seated.

Well, in Canada, you will get booted off the transport, since they have signs in English and French requesting you to give up your seat to pregant woman, elderly people, handicap people, anyone haveing standing walking problems!!

I know u can't help being poorly broght up!
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Old 04-22-2009, 08:06 PM
 
Location: Maryland
1,534 posts, read 3,780,673 times
Reputation: 2307
My concern with obese people is that it can make a long flight really unpleasant. I know the airlines are trying to deal with this issue but can appreciate the difficulty in addressing it. My wife and I travel fairly often (retired tourist bums, both of us are fairly trim size). I've come to the conclusion that our best defensive measure on long flights is to purchase three seats in the row and not have to worry about it. First class prices are over the top and I look at the extra coach seat cost as simply insurance for a pleasant flight.
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Old 04-22-2009, 08:24 PM
 
1,350 posts, read 3,619,939 times
Reputation: 1264
A passenger purchases a seat-that is one seat-if he needs two then he has to pay for the extra seat. Crying, bad breath, talkers--all can be unpleasant--but they are in the seat they purchased. I was in a window seat when a quite oversized man was helped down the aisle and into the seat next to me by the attendant. He was incapable of getting up on his own. The seat rest happened to be down and he took up my space and I felt not only suffocated but in a panic from the claustrophobic feeling. In an emergency I was stuck. No way. I moved and he didn't like it. Sorry--but a plane is no place to be locked into a seat unable to move out. What if there hadn't been an extra seat? I support Southwest charging for two seats. Absolutely.
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Old 04-22-2009, 09:30 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
4,085 posts, read 7,667,701 times
Reputation: 2648
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tama View Post
A passenger purchases a seat-that is one seat-if he needs two then he has to pay for the extra seat. Crying, bad breath, talkers--all can be unpleasant--but they are in the seat they purchased. I was in a window seat when a quite oversized man was helped down the aisle and into the seat next to me by the attendant. He was incapable of getting up on his own. The seat rest happened to be down and he took up my space and I felt not only suffocated but in a panic from the claustrophobic feeling. In an emergency I was stuck. No way. I moved and he didn't like it. Sorry--but a plane is no place to be locked into a seat unable to move out. What if there hadn't been an extra seat? I support Southwest charging for two seats. Absolutely.
The problem is that they don't actually charge for a "seat" but rather for a "passenger", or the transportation of a passenger - a person - from point A to point B. The seat is incidental. It's just the same as the fact that they are not actually charging you, in your ticket, for drinks, snacks, bathroom usage, etc. - they provide those as an added benefit. Some airlines are charging now for food and drinks, some are even considering charging for use of the bathroom. I'm sure that they would consider charging for seats also if not everyone required a seat.

So when a person buys that airline ticket he or she is buying transportation. Part of that is having a seat in which to be strapped for to make the flight safer. From the airline's perspective, the reason you need a seat is not so much for your comfort as it is for your safety and their reduced liability.

The airlines are guilty of never making prominent the details about the fares people purchase.

I can't help but sympathize for someone who is obese but not to the point where he or she can't get around and buys an airline ticket without knowing the details of the seat he or she will get. Airline seats are narrower than seats in buses, cars, etc. A person who has no problem elsewhere may have a problem fitting in a seat on a plane. If he has never flown before, he wouldn't know that till the last minute.

And that's when an airline like Southwest would spring up and say, "OOPS sorry!! You are too fat and need a second seat! And you have to pay for it now, and it's $X00.00 !!! Or else you can't fly!!! Tough luck!!!"

And THAT is not right to do to a person, fat or otherwise.

If airlines were more up front (and some are, now) about these things when a customer buys his ticket so that the customer can reconsider buying the ticket or consider buying the second ticket, it would be fine. I have no problem with an airline charging for a set "seat" or set amount of space on their planes, but until they charge in that fashion, they shouldn't be pulling a fast one on a person who believes he has bought transportation for the agreed-upon price.

Airlines should have a disclaimer or form of some sort where a customer agrees to the following:
- that he is purchasing one "seat" of space on the plane for the trip and he can fit in a seat that is x inches wide or will pay for a second seat if he arrives and is unable to
- that he will be sober and civil with other passengers or risk being denied the flight and may have to rebook and repay for another ticket
- that children in his company will be fully controlled and that if they are unable to be controlled they may be removed from a plane which hasn't yet left the ground

And honestly, I don't know how they would even broach the issue of a person's odor - how can you have a rule that if a person "smells bad" he or she can't fly? Who makes the judgment? Is too much perfume/cologne/deodorant "bad"??? Is Patchouli stink bad? Is tobacco smoke bad??? Body odor/sweat??? What level of each??? Policing body odors is a very tough one to enforce and I don't even think a disclaimer can be made for that.

But the issue regarding obese people and flying, the airlines need to be more clear and people who fly next to obese people, for the most part, need to just deal with it. Your situation sounded extreme, where he was taking up your seat as well, but in most cases people are upset that someone is just a little big and isn't requiring the armrests to be lifted but is big enough that they feel infringed upon or more claustrophobic. Those people need to just deal with it. You're flying with people, so there will be crying babies, smelly people, larger people (ones who are not so obese the armrest needs lifting), talkative people, etc. If someone can't deal with people then get a private jet.
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Old 04-23-2009, 03:36 PM
 
1,350 posts, read 3,619,939 times
Reputation: 1264
According to your logic people could be strapped to the walls as long as it is safe. People could be asked "to share", for example, squeeze in an extra passenger who missed a flight with an "extra" emergency seat belt on each row. There is a reasonable expectation when flying that one will have a seat-a whole seat.
I disagree that people get uptight about someone a little larger next to them. The airlines are not addressing this response but rather the problem of encroachment onto another person's space. Personal space is important in human interaction and it is this violation that is being addressed.
My case was not extreme. If you look at the rules which are to be enforced it is about extrordinary size and the need to have more space than the typical airline seat provides for.
Whether the airlines should provide some outsized seats to accommodate people of size is a legitimate issue. However, every extra is taxed--bringing a pet under the seat, a carry-on. a checked bag Why would a person requiring more then usual seating not have to pay as well?
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Old 04-23-2009, 04:24 PM
 
9,028 posts, read 16,424,156 times
Reputation: 6814
they've actually prototyped standing room flights - pretty much a board that you strap into
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Old 04-23-2009, 06:12 PM
 
Location: Aurora, Colorado
2,212 posts, read 4,606,217 times
Reputation: 2363
It's unfortunate because there are a lot of really large (okay..."fat") people who already are aware they stand out in a crowd. They have to ask for a seatbelt extension and they know that they are totally squishing over into the next seat. They sit and watch people working their way down the aisle and are hoping and praying that they will have someone small sitting next to them.

Then, there is the thin person (or at least the person who actually fits into the confines of their seat) who has to sit next to the person who is now in their space.

Airline travel is getting less and less fun and the airlines are certainly not going to make larger seats. They cram seats into the minimum number of inches required by law and then don't give a discount to those who are sitting in seats in the very back or in front of the emergency exit row (so they don't recline). Seems they are all too willing to charge extra for "premium seats" (at the bulkhead or emergency exits) but don't give a discount for the crappy seats (how about a discount for sitting across from the lavatory on a long flight?).

Fat people are just another group who is going to be discriminated against and the airlines are going to use the "safety" card to make it seem like they are putting the rest of us in danger. I remember a flight attendant asking if my daughter could sit in between 2 large people on a recent flight because she was "little and could fit". She is 6 (though in fairness to the flight attendant, she looks 11).

As was mentioned by previous posters on this thread, how about making the person who is literally overwhelming with cigarette smoke or the parent whose child should clearly be in their own seat pay more? I sat next to a guy chewing Twizzlers the entire flight from Orlando to Vegas. He chewed and smacked loudly, and then sucked on his nails as he dug piece after piece out of his teeth the entire flight. That was nearly 6 years ago and I still cannot bear to eat a Twizzler.

Until airlines start actually enforcing their existing rules (carry on bags should fit into that little bin at the check in but rarely do), and they actually stop this nonsense about lap children (which is not safe...not for a baby, not for a 2 year old), it seems like obese people are just getting a bad rap.

In addition, how is someone going to determine that a passenger is too large to fit in their seat? What's obese to one person isn't to another. There are plenty of fat people in America who don't fit into a seat either. Clearly someone who is 500 pounds needs to buy an extra seat. But what about someone who is just fat? How is that determined? Perhaps if they start enforcing the bag size rule, then they can enforce the fat rule.
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Old 04-23-2009, 08:00 PM
 
347 posts, read 855,216 times
Reputation: 236
"Clearly these airport officials have NO CLUE how expensive my mascara is "


Yes they do, it in their make up bag now
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Old 04-23-2009, 10:07 PM
 
1,350 posts, read 3,619,939 times
Reputation: 1264
Quote:
Originally Posted by the3Ds View Post
In addition, how is someone going to determine that a passenger is too large to fit in their seat? What's obese to one person isn't to another. There are plenty of fat people in America who don't fit into a seat either. Clearly someone who is 500 pounds needs to buy an extra seat. But what about someone who is just fat? How is that determined? Perhaps if they start enforcing the bag size rule, then they can enforce the fat rule.
Actually it would be quite easy to provide a mock seat in a private area where the passenger could sit to see if he fits. Can he sit in the seat with the armrest down or not? It is something that could be done at any airport way before any flight date so a surprise doesn't occur at the last moment. The seat could be available at travel agencies and even malls.

Whether they enforce a bag rule has nothing to do with this rule. That is a separate issue based on separate factors. If you have a problem with it then speak up about it as an additional problem not negate one problem's effect because another exists. As I mentioned before this is a matter of infringement on another's space. It affects passenger comfort and safety. You would have to lack imagination not to be concerned about being hemmed in and unable to leave your seat during any emergency. That is beside the discomfort and embarrassment of having a stranger in your lap.

If anything is done to accommodate large size passengers it should be in the way of having one seat on each plane that can be enlarged for such a passenger or one less passenger booked. Whether to charge more for this service would be up to the airline.
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Old 05-05-2009, 06:31 PM
 
1 posts, read 1,685 times
Reputation: 14
As a woman of substance, I get the stares, the fevered prayers of "Oh God, please don't let her sit next to me".... I usually upgrade into first class to avoid the whole fighting over the armrest thing. When I can't or if it doesn't make sense to use my miles, I try to book bulkhead or exit row (and yes, I am physically fit enough to open the window/door and get the evacuation underway). But what I can't stand is the guy who sits next to me with his legs spread wide apart, into my foot space, so "one-eyed joe" can get a little breathing room....... give me a break!
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