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Old 08-04-2008, 12:42 PM
MB2
 
Location: Sebastian/ FL
3,496 posts, read 8,697,674 times
Reputation: 2700

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ESFP View Post
Let's see... The attacker was outnumbered 35 to 1. What's worse, a person capable of this murder, or 100% of the witnesses preferred flight over fight? I find it more horrendous that no one was willing to help.
Quote:
nitram ............What would you do with a crazy person wailing a knife and cutting off a head and eating the flesh???

The passengers did what was best at the time.
I have mixed views on this.....huh.
Yes, my INSTINCT tells me, that someone SHOULD have helped. But, during the panic.....would I have helped?
Or would I have been "sucked" into the hysteria and practiced "my own survival".......??????
I am sorry to say, that I am not certain.
However, I don't know, WHAT other people were on that bus at that time (elderly, handicap, children)
So, under the circumstances, one would raise the question now on the "why other people didn't jump in to help".
But, I refrain from doing so, since I have no clue on exactly "WHO" and "WHICH" person would have been present (and capable at that time) to do so.
Everyone deals with shock, and emergency situations differently....and a lot of people can say right now : "I am doing this and that" .....but render useless in an actual event.
The right instinct and the right response, along with the right person, has to be present in order to prevent.
One should consider themselves fortunate and lucky to have one of those people present, in a case of an emergency.
My best wishes, hopes, prayers and condolences are with the victim and his family ! May he R.I.P !
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Old 08-04-2008, 01:17 PM
 
12,292 posts, read 18,409,613 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laysayfair View Post
When I heard this story on the radio I thought the same thing. They interviewed a man who was sitting right across from the man being murdered and nowhere did he sound like he ever thought of assisting. I can't imagaine 35 Americans not making any move to stop someone from being butchered in front of their eyes. I also think that if just one of them had been armed a man's life could have been saved. Unbelievable, that no one tried to help.
This didn't happen in the U.S., this was Canada. That's that "state" north of us with the tough gun laws. Little good that did them.
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Old 08-04-2008, 01:24 PM
 
Location: Fairbanks, AK...formerly Kentucky
631 posts, read 1,698,751 times
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Someone should have helped the victim. I still do not understand how no one could help him. The attacker wasn't a large man. How hard would it have been for a couple of people to take him to the ground. Granted this young man's life might not have been saved but at least his family could have been spared his body being mutilated as it was. That is something that I can not to this day imagine.
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Old 08-04-2008, 01:35 PM
 
12,292 posts, read 18,409,613 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blue_eyedgirl View Post
Someone should have helped the victim. I still do not understand how no one could help him. The attacker wasn't a large man. How hard would it have been for a couple of people to take him to the ground. Granted this young man's life might not have been saved but at least his family could have been spared his body being mutilated as it was. That is something that I can not to this day imagine.
Ahh the politics of appeasement. The society of pacifism.

There is a thread in the Canada forums on this subject - one response, by a canadian, bears good reading. It has at least one Canadian asking why his own countrymen can't disarm a person with knife. Not that the same thing couldn't happen in the U.S. either. But in the U.S. the other week in Knoxville their were people that took down a shotgun weilding crazy man, the people that took him down were unarmed!
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Old 08-04-2008, 02:10 PM
 
Location: on an island
13,382 posts, read 40,919,576 times
Reputation: 13245
Sometimes it *is* amazing to think of what people get away with, and you do wonder how much occurs simply because people choose to do nothing.
Not long ago I saw a video (recorded by the surveillance camera on a city bus) of a guy beating up another guy for his Iphone.
Behind him, separately,were an older woman, and a younger woman with a child.
They just sat there and watched.
Granted,there was not a whole lot they could do. I don't know if the bus driver was aware. The bus wasn't stopping, though.
At the very least, the woman could have said something. But she just sat and watched. I don't think I could just sit there like that, without even saying anything--but maybe she was just in shock--maybe it just didn't seem real, I dunno.
Here is the video. It's brief, but certainly violent.
link
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Old 08-04-2008, 03:43 PM
 
3,413 posts, read 6,452,744 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
This didn't happen in the U.S., this was Canada. That's that "state" north of us with the tough gun laws. Little good that did them.
I know it was Canada. That's my point. If it had been the USA I don't believe it would have gone down in that way.
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Old 08-04-2008, 04:43 PM
 
Location: Happy wherever I am - Florida now
3,359 posts, read 10,911,567 times
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I thought about this all weekend. What would I have on hand on a bus trip that would be effective in stopping him if I had to act?

What I came up with is a garrotte from behind using a phone charger cord and crisscrossed arms.

I knew somebody who actually disarmed a knife wielder on a full public bus but he had been trained for it. Another time he broke both legs of two teens who were trying to rob him thinking he was an old man.
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Old 08-04-2008, 05:40 PM
 
Location: in my mind
2,745 posts, read 13,117,204 times
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This sort of thing has been discussed before... remember the case with the guy who killed a CHILD with people around? It was discussed here on CD, can't remember what forum, and the same questions were asked about why no one stopped him.

FOXNews.com - Police Kill Man Who Stomped Baby to Death - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News

I don't know or remember how many witnesses there were, but it seems like if there were at least 2 or 3 that would be enough to pull this guy OFF that baby!? The article says that those who tried to stop him were "pushed away". Again, who knows the details exactly but it's amazing to me that they couldn't manage to stop him and hold him down. :::shrug::: I have not been in such a situation. I would LIKE to think that I'd be hitting him over the head with a tire jack or doing whatever I could to stop him. I bet the people who were there that day would have said the same thing before finding themselves in that situation... so I don't understand why, when it came down to it, no one did?

It just doesn't make sense when you read about heroic feats of superhuman strength. Heck, I was in a car wreck when I was 14 and the driver of the car was trapped with the car on his legs. My friend (another 14 year old girl, about 5'6" and 115 pounds) and the other guy (a teenage boy) LIFTED the car off of the driver! I was injured and could not get up, but those 2 were not injured enough to prevent them from getting a vehicle off of his legs. So I would think this sort of super-adrenaline thing would kick in to stop someone who was attacking another person.

Anyway, there was a link posted at the time of the discussion about the toddler in California about the "bystander effect" and it was interesting, and disturbing, to read.

Bystander effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Anyway, I still find it hard to comprehend how it was not possible to stop this guy with the knife. Even if you had half of the population on the bus consisting of kids and the elderly, would it really have taken more than five able bodied adults to bring him down?
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Old 08-04-2008, 08:11 PM
 
Location: Happy wherever I am - Florida now
3,359 posts, read 10,911,567 times
Reputation: 3843
I responded to a situation one time that really upset me. A man, a well dressed one I might add, was llying on the sidewalk unconscious with a group of people standing over him when I ran over and tried to recusicate him. Because he was so large I asked someone to help me and though there were at least two people I knew who were public safety and trained in this no one would.

By the time the ambulance came and got him to the hospital he was gone. It still freaks me out to this day that no one had the guts to lift a finger.
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Old 08-05-2008, 07:36 AM
MB2
 
Location: Sebastian/ FL
3,496 posts, read 8,697,674 times
Reputation: 2700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgoldie View Post
I responded to a situation one time that really upset me. A man, a well dressed one I might add, was llying on the sidewalk unconscious with a group of people standing over him when I ran over and tried to recusicate him. Because he was so large I asked someone to help me and though there were at least two people I knew who were public safety and trained in this no one would.

By the time the ambulance came and got him to the hospital he was gone. It still freaks me out to this day that no one had the guts to lift a finger.
You are very brave, and took control.....and I truly admire you for that !
However, I'd like to think, that I would be the one person running to the rescue.....
But, as I mentioned before, a situation has to present itself first, for me to be absolutely 100 % certain, that I wouldn't be the person (amongst other bystanders) to "freeze" up.....and ending up, doing nothing.
But then, on the other hand do I hope, I will never be "tested" in a situation like that.......
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