U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Travel
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 04-08-2009, 11:05 AM
 
12,258 posts, read 18,390,529 times
Reputation: 19082

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgepl View Post
I don’t smoke in public, at all,ever, but I sure don’t appreciate others dictating to me how and what I do choose to do, whether or not it’s a wise decision to do so.
I don't like the government dictating what I should do either, and that goes for smoking as well. This is coming from a non-smoker.

However, I also vote with my wallet....and thus you get non-smoking hotels that I prefer, non-smoking resteraunts that I prefer, and non-smoking rental cars. If they ever allow smoking on some airlines, I will refuse to travel on such and only take the non-smoking carrier. The country has changed regarding smoking, the dangers are now more public, the government has increased smoking taxes, initiated some laws on public smoking, but many of the rules regarding where you can smoke are market-imposed, not government mandates. I like that, it's the way it should be. The habit of smoking, like it or not, is a very intrusive on those nearby. The market has reacted, and there are just more non-smokers now than smokers. If they allow smoking in there hotel, they may lose business. If they allowed smoking in their resteraunt, they wouldn't have as many customers. If they allow smoking at work, they may lose employees and incure higher health insurance premiums. It's not a question of democracy, it's a question of free enterprise in action.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-08-2009, 11:14 AM
 
Location: mass
2,905 posts, read 6,572,840 times
Reputation: 4979
Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgepl View Post
I donít smoke in public, at all,ever, but I sure donít appreciate others dictating to me how and what I do choose to do, whether or not itís a wise decision to do so.
Either the gov't dictates where you smoke......

Or you dictate what I breathe.......


Either way, one of us is going to be affected.....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-08-2009, 11:16 AM
 
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
1,410 posts, read 3,560,030 times
Reputation: 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgepl View Post
pa2uk-I would be more than happy to insult you directly, however, the mods generally frown upon that sort of behavior and would most likely remove it altogether.

Gman-What's so great about majority rule? Would you want the kind of car that you own to be decided through a democratic process, or would you prefer purchasing any car you please? Ask that same question about decisions such as where you live, what clothes you purchase, what food you eat, what entertainment you enjoy and what wines you drink. I'm sure that if anyone suggested that these choices be subject to a democratic process, you'd deem it tyranny. James Madison, the father of our Constitution, said that in a pure democracy rather than a balanced republic, "there is nothing to check the inducement to sacrifice the weaker party or the obnoxious individual." He also observed, "Measures are too often decided, not according to the rules of justice and the rights of the minor party, but by the superior force of an interested and overbearing majority." That's another way of saying that one of the primary dangers of majority rule is that it confers an aura of legitimacy and respectability on acts that would otherwise be deemed tyrannical. Liberty and democracy are not synonymous and could actually be opposites.
I donít smoke in public, at all,ever, but I sure donít appreciate others dictating to me how and what I do choose to do, whether or not itís a wise decision to do so.
The main difference is that it is a medical fact that smoking kills people. With this knowledge over the years, we have legislated against smoking in public places for health concerns. Comparing this to rules against what clothes to wear or car to buy is apples and oranges. Perhaps i used the majority factor as it comes to smokers in the wrong way, but smokers used to be a majority and now they are not. In any event, our laws usually try to protect our citizens and in that light, smoking in public is being phased out.

I will say, that smoking bans city wide in all public places do not seem right to me. I think each store, bar, etc owner should have the right to decide whether they want to allow smoking or not. None of this smoking section BS because we all know that is a farce. Either a smoking establishment or not. If its non smoking, smokers can choose to go or not go but dont complain about not being able to smoke if you go. If its smoking, non smokers can choose to go or not go but dont complain about lung cancer and that your skin and clothes smell like a dirty bum when you get home.

G Man
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-08-2009, 11:20 AM
 
510 posts, read 1,430,161 times
Reputation: 854
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommytotwo View Post
Either the gov't dictates where you smoke......

Or you dictate what I breathe.......


Either way, one of us is going to be affected.....
I will say, that smoking bans city wide in all public places do not seem right to me. I think each store, bar, etc owner should have the right to decide whether they want to allow smoking or not. None of this smoking section BS because we all know that is a farce. Either a smoking establishment or not. If its non smoking, smokers can choose to go or not go but dont complain about not being able to smoke if you go. If its smoking, non smokers can choose to go or not go but dont complain about lung cancer and that your skin and clothes smell like a dirty bum when you get home.

Well said!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-08-2009, 03:55 PM
 
Location: Tucson/Nogales
17,370 posts, read 21,213,499 times
Reputation: 24195
Quote:
Originally Posted by PA2UK View Post
Your addiction = your problem. You may be addicted and I realize it's hard to quit but it's NOT impossible to quit. You have a choice, you choose to continue smoking and to compare that to a true disablity which is something someone does not choose to start or continue with is outrageously offensive. Businesses accommodate people with disabilities because they can not change their situation: YOU CAN.
I beg to differ! Using automobiles is a very dangerous, expensive, nasty habit that can be overcome with walking, biking, using mass transit. So someone makes the big mistake of driving their car one day, gets broadsided at an intersection, and is left disabled. A hotel will provide for that idiot and his self-inflicted disability. Another person becomes disabled due to obesity, another bad habit that could be overcome, and they're provided for, wheelchair and all.

In today's paper (Smoke or not: You cost either way) the costs of smoker's to our country is not much differnet that non-smokers who will live, on an average, 10 years longer, costing the government equally, by living longer.

I dislike smoking in my room, prefer not to, but when I'm traveling in Central or South America, it's never an issue, due to the design of their lodgings, with rooftop decks and generous balconies. How hard it is to find reasonably priced lodgings in their country with those amenities. And here in Las Vegas, you can't even smoke on the balconies at the Signature at MGM Grand.

Obviously, chain hotels like Starwood, who ban smoking in all their rooms, have such a high occupancy rate every nite that they can afford to send us out into the streets in front of the hotel to smoke when we feel like it. And how long will it be before they tell us that we can't smoke there, only in the line of oncoming traffic in the streets.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-08-2009, 04:00 PM
 
Location: Colorado (PA at heart)
8,897 posts, read 13,645,023 times
Reputation: 11519
Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgepl View Post
pa2uk-I would be more than happy to insult you directly, however, the mods generally frown upon that sort of behavior and would most likely remove it altogether.
Then maybe that's a clue you shouldn't say it at all rather than try to find a way around it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-08-2009, 04:04 PM
 
Location: Florida
6,262 posts, read 17,356,210 times
Reputation: 4698
when perfume/cologne is banned in public and drinking issues become pro-active as opposed to waiting until someone is killed and a DUI is handed out; then I will feel there is a clear balance.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-08-2009, 04:06 PM
 
Location: Florida
6,262 posts, read 17,356,210 times
Reputation: 4698
exactly how I feel when I'm forced to leave public places due to perfumes or colognes. Or get so nauseated and a raging migraine while on an airplane with the offensive scents.
Ditto for being subjected to people drinking when I'm not a drinker.
It goes both ways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mommytotwo View Post
Either the gov't dictates where you smoke......

Or you dictate what I breathe.......

Either way, one of us is going to be affected.....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-08-2009, 04:12 PM
 
Location: Colorado (PA at heart)
8,897 posts, read 13,645,023 times
Reputation: 11519
Quote:
Originally Posted by tijlover View Post
I beg to differ! Using automobiles is a very dangerous, expensive, nasty habit that can be overcome with walking, biking, using mass transit. So someone makes the big mistake of driving their car one day, gets broadsided at an intersection, and is left disabled. A hotel will provide for that idiot and his self-inflicted disability.
I don't know where you live but for many people, public transportation, walking or biking is simply not an option. Are you seriously saying that people who drive are idiots and any disability resulting from it is self inflicted? I just don't even know what to say to that, it's absurd and if you really believe that, I can see I am not able to have a rational discussion with you.

Quote:
Another person becomes disabled due to obesity, another bad habit that could be overcome, and they're provided for, wheelchair and all.
I don't think the world should accommodate obesity either.

Quote:
In today's paper (Smoke or not: You cost either way) the costs of smoker's to our country is not much differnet that non-smokers who will live, on an average, 10 years longer, costing the government equally, by living longer.
Yeah, God forbid people take care of themselves and live longer, shame of them, lol.

The lengths that smokers will go to to defend their actions is really amazing. Normally rational, reasonable, logical people will throw it all out the window to defend their smoking.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-08-2009, 04:33 PM
 
Location: Florida
6,262 posts, read 17,356,210 times
Reputation: 4698
wow-that is exactly how I feel about people who drink. Amazing!

Quote:
Originally Posted by PA2UK View Post
The lengths that smokers will go to to defend their actions is really amazing. Normally rational, reasonable, logical people will throw it all out the window to defend their smoking.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Travel
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top