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Old 04-08-2009, 04:42 PM
 
Location: Ballwin, MO
366 posts, read 1,582,775 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
I don't like the government dictating what I should do either, and that goes for smoking as well. This is coming from a non-smoker.

However, I also vote with my wallet....and thus you get non-smoking hotels that I prefer, non-smoking resteraunts that I prefer, and non-smoking rental cars. If they ever allow smoking on some airlines, I will refuse to travel on such and only take the non-smoking carrier. The country has changed regarding smoking, the dangers are now more public, the government has increased smoking taxes, initiated some laws on public smoking, but many of the rules regarding where you can smoke are market-imposed, not government mandates. I like that, it's the way it should be. The habit of smoking, like it or not, is a very intrusive on those nearby. The market has reacted, and there are just more non-smokers now than smokers. If they allow smoking in there hotel, they may lose business. If they allowed smoking in their resteraunt, they wouldn't have as many customers. If they allow smoking at work, they may lose employees and incure higher health insurance premiums. It's not a question of democracy, it's a question of free enterprise in action.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gman5431 View Post
The main difference is that it is a medical fact that smoking kills people. With this knowledge over the years, we have legislated against smoking in public places for health concerns. Comparing this to rules against what clothes to wear or car to buy is apples and oranges. Perhaps i used the majority factor as it comes to smokers in the wrong way, but smokers used to be a majority and now they are not. In any event, our laws usually try to protect our citizens and in that light, smoking in public is being phased out.

I will say, that smoking bans city wide in all public places do not seem right to me. I think each store, bar, etc owner should have the right to decide whether they want to allow smoking or not. None of this smoking section BS because we all know that is a farce. Either a smoking establishment or not. If its non smoking, smokers can choose to go or not go but dont complain about not being able to smoke if you go. If its smoking, non smokers can choose to go or not go but dont complain about lung cancer and that your skin and clothes smell like a dirty bum when you get home.
G Man
Two very good and well thought out posts. As for the comment about majority should rule (I know it was clarified above concerning their original statement) but I do have a problem with the fact that some people do believe that majority should rule on everything. My first thought to this is, what would happened if majority could decide issues of civil rights (especially back in the '50s), religious rights, gay rights, etc? What happens when the minority becomes the majority? People confuse elections of public officials with what is right and what is wrong.
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Old 04-09-2009, 10:42 AM
 
Location: Colorado (PA at heart)
8,915 posts, read 13,658,638 times
Reputation: 11560
Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamWeavin View Post
wow-that is exactly how I feel about people who drink. Amazing!
If someone is addicted to alcohol, binge drinks or drinks and drive, I totally agree. But I don't want to go into that too much because we're getting off topic.
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Old 04-09-2009, 07:45 PM
 
Location: mass
2,905 posts, read 6,575,301 times
Reputation: 4979
Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgepl View Post
I will say, that smoking bans city wide in all public places do not seem right to me. I think each store, bar, etc owner should have the right to decide whether they want to allow smoking or not. None of this smoking section BS because we all know that is a farce. Either a smoking establishment or not. If its non smoking, smokers can choose to go or not go but dont complain about not being able to smoke if you go. If its smoking, non smokers can choose to go or not go but dont complain about lung cancer and that your skin and clothes smell like a dirty bum when you get home.

Well said!
City wide bans in smoking out of doors, no. If people really want to smoke, they should be able to find somewhere to do it. I don't agree with banning smoking in all outdoor places.

Restaurants, yes. ban it. Smoking sections don't work and they are food establishments anyway.

Bars, well I don't see why there cannot be some leeway there.
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Old 04-09-2009, 09:38 PM
 
Location: Bay Area, CA
29,041 posts, read 45,025,391 times
Reputation: 20425
To summarize my thoughts on this (as a smoker myself who is currently traveling)...

1. Yes, it is frustrating, especially when you're in certain states.

2. We aren't asking for "special accommodations," just the usual choices we used to have... NO airports have smoking lounges anymore, and how difficult is it to provide balconies or patios? It's almost like being a prisoner when you're in a non-smoking airport, airplane, hotel, and rental car. For crying out loud, you can't even smoke outside without getting in trouble these days. All they have to do is block out like 10 smoking hotel rooms, a few smoking rental cars, and maybe give us back those smoking lounges - "cancer fishbowls," as I used to call them. You can still have your non-smoking rooms and cars, and I won't even ask for smoking in airplanes, since I acknowledge the intrusion there. But how is it fair to cut us out by 100%?? Especially in airports and hotels, where you can't get outside even if you want to.

3. Smoking is still legal, so until it's deemed illegal, leave us the heck alone. I'm a 32 year-old woman, and you only have to be 18 to smoke... drinking is legal but potentially dangerous, so why isn't everyone pushing for non-drinking hotels and restaurants? Double-standard, I tell ya.

4. Everyone has bad habits, but smokers are now the lepers of society... funny when people whine about my second-hand smoke, as they're driving an SUV and munching on a cheeseburger.
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Old 04-09-2009, 09:43 PM
 
Location: Bay Area, CA
29,041 posts, read 45,025,391 times
Reputation: 20425
P.S. I always travel with nicotine gum nowadays, since it gets me through the withdrawals.. oh, but that first one when you land feels nice. Right now I'm in Massachusetts, which is luckily still a smoker-friendly state - I'm smoking one in my hotel room as I type, LOL. As a Californian, however, I'm totally used to everything being smoke-free.
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Old 04-09-2009, 09:56 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
620 posts, read 1,616,328 times
Reputation: 414
Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmo980 View Post
P.S. I always travel with nicotine gum nowadays, since it gets me through the withdrawals.. oh, but that first one when you land feels nice. Right now I'm in Massachusetts, which is luckily still a smoker-friendly state - I'm smoking one in my hotel room as I type, LOL. As a Californian, however, I'm totally used to everything being smoke-free.
I never thought about nicotine gum; I may have to try that. And I'm definitely getting some for my sis if we ever go back to Cali lol!
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Old 04-10-2009, 02:57 AM
 
Location: Colorado (PA at heart)
8,915 posts, read 13,658,638 times
Reputation: 11560
Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmo980 View Post
maybe give us back those smoking lounges - "cancer fishbowls," as I used to call them.
Trouble is, smokers don't realize just how far the smoke can carry - or how it can seep through cracks. One day, I was indoors and all the way on the other side of the room there was a window open only a crack. I suddenly smelled cigarette smoke. I got up and looked out the window - someone was smoking not only outside but from across the street. The smoke had made it's way across the street (smoke doesn't just dissipate because you're outside), through the small crack in the window and across the room.

I'm not exaggerating - to be honest, I was a little surprised myself when I realized where the smoker was and how far the smoke had carried. But because you are used to the smoke, you don't realize things like this - only non-smokers do. I'm really not saying this to "attack" you or other smokers... I'm trying to help you see just how much the smoke effects other people because I know that you don't realize it since you're used to the smoke.

And I am also not saying this because I want smoking banned even outside or anything. In fact, I do have issues with the government getting involved with private businesses so I do not necessarily support an indoor-public smoking ban. I'm just trying to put the guns down for a minute and get some smokers to understand just how much and how far smoke can infect the areas around you so that maybe you'll understand where non-smokers are coming from a little better. For decades, non-smokers endured smoke being imposed on them pretty much everywhere yet most just silently suffered. Now it's your turn to understand the imposition of the situation.

But that is why designated smoking lounges just don't work. The smoke still makes it way inside or outside. And it should go without saying but indoor smoking "areas" which have no physical barriers like in restaurants are even worse - there a joke. If smoke can make it's way through small cracks in the doors and windows and carry distances that would surprise you, it's pretty obvious that any restaurant with a smoking "area" is basically a restaurant for smoking altogether. If someone is smoking even all the way across a restaurant, I can smell it just the same as if they were smoking right next to me. Again, no exaggeration.

Quote:
I'm a 32 year-old woman, and you only have to be 18 to smoke... drinking is legal but potentially dangerous, so why isn't everyone pushing for non-drinking hotels and restaurants? Double-standard, I tell ya.
Alcohol is far less physically/chemically addictive and does not cause cancer. But I disapprove of people who make poor choices in regards to alcohol just as much as I disapprove of smoking.

Quote:
4. Everyone has bad habits, but smokers are now the lepers of society... funny when people whine about my second-hand smoke, as they're driving an SUV and munching on a cheeseburger.
I don't own an SUV and I would never eat while driving, if that's what you mean. If you're just referring to eating unhealthy - well, I will eat the occassionally cheeseburger but unlike you and your cigarettes, I am not addicted to them. Nor will they cause cancer or impose on others. I try to eat healthy in general because I have IBS and unhealthy food really irritates it. I am not perfect, I have bad habits but none of them impose on others and cause cancer.
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Old 04-10-2009, 03:11 AM
 
Location: Colorado (PA at heart)
8,915 posts, read 13,658,638 times
Reputation: 11560
Also something smokers might want to consider to make everyone happy is smokeless/electronic cigarettes. No smoke, doesn't smell, is legal indoors, has no tobacco but gives you an instant hit of nicotine. Some even have a tip that glows red when you suck on it and release something that looks like smoke but isn't.

Electronic cigarette - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 04-10-2009, 08:12 AM
 
Location: mass
2,905 posts, read 6,575,301 times
Reputation: 4979
Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmo980 View Post
2. We aren't asking for "special accommodations," just the usual choices we used to have... NO airports have smoking lounges anymore, and how difficult is it to provide balconies or patios? It's almost like being a prisoner when you're in a non-smoking airport, airplane, hotel, and rental car. For crying out loud, you can't even smoke outside without getting in trouble these days. All they have to do is block out like 10 smoking hotel rooms, a few smoking rental cars, and maybe give us back those smoking lounges - "cancer fishbowls," as I used to call them. You can still have your non-smoking rooms and cars, and I won't even ask for smoking in airplanes, since I acknowledge the intrusion there. But how is it fair to cut us out by 100%?? Especially in airports and hotels, where you can't get outside even if you want to.
I understand what you are saying. You should have some area available to you for smoking. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. The problem is that indoor smoke cannot really be contained with current technology and no one seems to care to invent some high powered venting systems or air purifiers to deal with the smoke. The business appear just as happy to ban it altogether. No one seems to care if there is a smoking room or not. I agree with you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmo980 View Post
3. Smoking is still legal, so until it's deemed illegal, leave us the heck alone. I'm a 32 year-old woman, and you only have to be 18 to smoke... drinking is legal but potentially dangerous, so why isn't everyone pushing for non-drinking hotels and restaurants? Double-standard, I tell ya.
Drinking is only "potentially" dangerous. And a person drinking a beer is not affecting anyone else (Unless he/she is drunk and obnoxious). There is a big difference in banning drinking and smoking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmo980 View Post
4. Everyone has bad habits, but smokers are now the lepers of society... funny when people whine about my second-hand smoke, as they're driving an SUV and munching on a cheeseburger.
I don't agree with that. I'm pretty sure that when gas was high, SUV owners were not being looked at with high regard, and the cheeseburger people are feeling your pain too!!!
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Old 04-10-2009, 08:51 AM
 
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
1,410 posts, read 3,561,269 times
Reputation: 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmo980 View Post
3. Smoking is still legal, so until it's deemed illegal, leave us the heck alone. I'm a 32 year-old woman, and you only have to be 18 to smoke... drinking is legal but potentially dangerous, so why isn't everyone pushing for non-drinking hotels and restaurants? Double-standard, I tell ya.

4. Everyone has bad habits, but smokers are now the lepers of society... funny when people whine about my second-hand smoke, as they're driving an SUV and munching on a cheeseburger.
Drinking is a bad habit too and to some extent it is a double standard, i agree. But when i drink next to you (if i can handle my liquor) then it really has no affect on you, and definately doesnt have a health effect on you. If i was smoking next to you, it has been proven that it will. The parallels are there but in the end its apples and oranges.

For point # 4 - on the same token, i always think its funny when the people who complain about gas prices are the same ones that are wasting hundreds of dollars every year on cigarettes.

G Man
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