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Old 04-23-2009, 07:21 PM
 
Location: Camping in the motorhome
1,371 posts, read 1,108,049 times
Reputation: 952

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BergenCountyJohnny View Post
Wow, this thread sure runs the gamut with every opinion, lol... Here are some random thoughts on it after reading all the posts. BTW, I'm someone who was a non-smoker who took up smoking and then quit. I haven't smoked in over a year.

First of all - the judgmental, critical non-smokers (anti-smoking nazis) are the most irrational and unreasonable group I've encountered on either side of the smoking debate. I honestly think they just want to put others down for no real reason other than to elevate themselves. Also, I firmly believe that, while there are people who have an actual allergy to cigarette smoke, the majority of people who claim to be allergic are full of crap. I know this because I've seen people who aren't allergic claim it because they were virulent anti-smoking nazis who were trying to lay guilt trips on people for smoking. It's amazing to me the vitriol some people have towards smokers.

Moving on.... I think it's great that we're past the days of smoking everywhere. When I was a little kid I remember ash trays in malls, grocery stores, Macy's, offices, etc. When I was in college everything was smoking except your dorm room if you chose non-smoking (but the lounge outside your room was smoking). It was too much. When I smoked, I would get smoking rooms for my hotel stay. I didn't realize how much it just ruined everything. I went with freshly washed clothes, and after a few hours in a smoking room, even if I didn't smoke yet, they stunk. After that I only got non-smoking and went outside to smoke. So yes, smokers usually don't realize how bad it stinks whereas nonsmokers pick up on it more easily.

That being said, those non-smokers who insist that all smokers stink and their cars stink etc. are wrong. I know several smokers whose cars don't stink and homes don't stink. Most of them their clothes smell once they wear them but not their clean clothes in their homes. I have known smokers who never smelled of smoke when I interacted with them. I have had friends step out for a smoke and come in and I say "Didn't you smoke?" and they say "yeah" but I don't smell it - most times I do smell it on them though. So all the talk about how all smokers stink and everything they have stinks, blah blah blah - well, that kind of talk STINKS. It's not true.

Rental cars - I have smoked in rental cars with the window open and it's unnoticeable. As a non-smoker, I have been in rental cars where others smoked with the window open and by the time we return the car, the "new car" smell is all you smell.

Rude smokers - yes there are rude ones and ones who think everything should accommodate them, but they are the rare ones. Most smokers are increasingly courteous because they know they're frowned upon by most people.

Rude anti-smokers - this would be a LOT of anti-smokers. I was walking along the sidewalk outside the mall a couple weeks ago. A guy was smoking about 100 feet away. A little girl, near me, started fake-coughing and saying "Mommy, that man is smoking, mommy, that's GROSS that man is GROSS!" As they walked towards him she started fake coughing more and more and saying "Smoking's gross! Smoking's Gross!" and the mother didn't say a word, just smiled a little, tried to avoid eye contact with the man who was sitting on a bench away from the mall entrance, smoking. I would never let my kid be rude like that, and this mother was a jerk to teach her kid to be a nasty jerk like that.

The "I vote with my wallet" non-smokers... Funny, but if non-smokers are so keen on bars and casinos that are non-smoking, why did business get crunched with smoking bans? Particularly at Casinos, which is why Vegas is loosening the few bans they had and Atlantic City, which is seeing its worst revenue in ages, is looking at rolling back the bans (AGAIN). What happened? The casinos became smoke free and all these non-smokers who said how great that would be didn't show up??? Why?

I chalk it up to the "pizza princeple", my own theory. My theory comes from the fact that when a group is ordering pizza, a vocal minority will insist that certain toppings be on the pizzas - like mushrooms and peppers, for example. So with their constant clamoring for mushrooms and peppers, half the pizzas are ordered with mushrooms and pizzas, even though I and many others want plain pizza. Of course, when the pizzas arrive, the vocal half of the crowd who insisted on mushrooms and peppers ALL OF A SUDDEN decide that plain is good, so they each have plain pizza. The result? I get a slice of plain pizza and then all that's left is mushroom and pepper pizza, because all the people who clamored and insisted it be ordered all of a sudden decided no, we wanted plain pizza instead.

Same thing with the casinos. People whined and moaned, "Oh, I would go to the casinos if they weren't smokey, oh, the smoke ruins it, oh the smokers have to go, it's so rude, it ruins everything, if the smokers didn't go more non-smokers would go in their place" blah blah blah.... So the casinos get rid of smoking and what happens? The smokers don't go, and no new non-smoking customers show up. Business goes down, and they look at rolling back the legislation. Of course, anti-smoking lobbyists pipe up again... But now they're crying wolf.

And such is the smoking/non-smoking debate. My attitude is that smokers have it rough, it is a tough habit to kick, and they don't deserve the harsh judgment and mistreatment people give them because they can get away with it. Let the laws continue to be made by what people vote for and what people's wallets vote for - let the businesses hash it out to an extent, also. If a non-smoking nightclub or casino is such a great business venture, let them duke it out with the smoking ones.

But I do have to side with the smokers on the fact that they do get undue abuse directly because people can get away with it.
great post......most intelligent commentary on here yet!
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Old 04-23-2009, 08:01 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
4,085 posts, read 7,668,482 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tijlover View Post
Like I reported in a previous post, I'm a smoker who doesn't like smoking in my room, and I blame the hotel developers in this country for being too cheap to provide more balconies in their hotels, or provide a rooftop space for us. Like in Latin America, using a good comparison, where I like to travel. I'm always finding motels/hotels with generous balconies and rooftop decks without paying a fortune to stay there.

Visiting Portland last summer, I found all no-smoking in rooms in downtown Portland. Fine! But where's the balconies? The rooftop deck? So, I was banished to the Ramada at the Airport for my stay there. Same thing happened a recent trip to the East Coast.

Obviously, the hotels are making enough money and for those who have simply given up and resigned themselves to staying home, their revenue is not missed at all. We were all replaced by non-smoking travelers?
I have a good friend, ironically a pretty staunch anti-smoking guy, who is a landscape architect and contractor with a large company, and their clients include a lot of hotels and resorts. He was telling me of someplace in Florida, I can't quite remember but I think it was the Tampa Bay area, where a particular hotel owner had several hotels, and his business has been slumping (which is typical these days) EXCEPT in one of his hotels that has mostly rooms with balconies. The reason, he found out, is that the hotel with the balconies (in standard rooms) is preferred by smoking guests.

Prior to the economic slump he was planning on building a new hotel, I believe a Holiday Inn. (He currently has a couple HI's and a Hampton and another Hilton-family property.) He said he was going to put balconies on ALL the rooms because he will take advantage of the smokers' business. All his rooms have gone non-smoking but he'll sell on the balconies.

So, the smart hotels will start accommodating smokers, hopefully. It just kills me that people make such a fuss over smoking but not over other things. In Bakersfield, CA someone gave my sister's co-worker a hard time for smoking and he told her "hey, you live in the city with the worst air quality, from SUV's and vehicles and other pollution, and you're worried about my cigarette???" But yeah, people are like that.

My last trip to Vegas, in December, my friend and I shared a room and I insisted on non-smoking. We stayed at Binion's a few nights, and the windows opened, so he was able to sneak in a smoke here and there by opening the window and keeping the butt outside. The room never smelled like smoke.

I think the funniest thing is watching these casino towns start to implement smoking bans and then turn tail immediately when business literally crashes. Atlantic City is getting KILLED.
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Old 04-23-2009, 08:41 PM
 
Location: Tucson/Nogales
17,391 posts, read 21,228,976 times
Reputation: 24215
Maybe there's hope for the hotel industry in the U.S. afterall. That's very, very good news!

But here, in Las Vegas, at the Signature hotel-condo's at MGM with very large balconies, they won't even allow you to smoke on the balconies!

Talk to your friend about adding rooftop decks a la Latin America. That's the first thing I do when I'm down there, I drop my bag and rush up to the roof for a 360 degree view of the city. I could spend all day and night up there!

What's with the roofs of the hotels in this country, they're not strong enough to hold the weight? What gives?

Same with airport terminals. You mean to tell me they can't provide a rooftop deck at one of the terminals for us smokers, where no one will be effected. The roofs can't support the weight?
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Old 04-24-2009, 06:10 AM
 
Location: Savannah GA/Lk Hopatcong NJ
13,106 posts, read 24,883,519 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VC dreamer View Post
great post......most intelligent commentary on here yet!

Agree 100%
I've been smoke free for about 3 weeks now,which is no where near putting me over the hump... quit only due to the obscene prices on ciggies and lord I would never become one of those non smoker nazi's.
Quitting is a life long battle ..kind of like a recovering alcoholic
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Old 04-24-2009, 07:25 PM
 
Location: Tucson/Nogales
17,391 posts, read 21,228,976 times
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I quit smoking about 15 minutes ago. In another 10 minutes, I'll probably start smoking again.
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Old 04-24-2009, 07:34 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
620 posts, read 1,616,220 times
Reputation: 414
Quote:
Originally Posted by tijlover View Post
I quit smoking about 15 minutes ago. In another 10 minutes, I'll probably start smoking again.
LOL, in that case, I guess I'm doing pretty good. I quit over an hour ago. That's right; a whole hour!
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Old 04-24-2009, 07:44 PM
 
Location: Tucson/Nogales
17,391 posts, read 21,228,976 times
Reputation: 24215
Oscar Wilde: The cigarette is the perfect type of a perfect pleasure, it leaves you unsatisfied.

A whole hour of being unsatisfied? I envy you!
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Old 04-24-2009, 07:48 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
620 posts, read 1,616,220 times
Reputation: 414
Quote:
Originally Posted by tijlover View Post
Oscar Wilde: The cigarette is the perfect type of a perfect pleasure, it leaves you unsatisfied.

A whole hour of being unsatisfied? I envy you!
You know what? You're making me want to light up. You're such a bad influence on me.
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Old 04-24-2009, 07:57 PM
Status: "I hate living in Georgia!!" (set 10 days ago)
 
48,082 posts, read 45,465,557 times
Reputation: 15325
Quote:
Originally Posted by gman5431 View Post
Smoking is a thing of the past. There is a reason that public places, like resturants, airports, hotels, rental cars, stadiums, etc are all smoke free. Smoking kills people and non-smokers out number smokers these days. Its a democratic society so smoker is on the out. I have no problem with smokers, go ahead, smoke in your house, smoke outdoors.....

Its funny when smokers complain about all these new constraints. What you all need to realize is you are a dying breed (literally). Also, there are a lot of smokers who are unaware of how rude they are - blowing smoke in other peoples faces, etc and they ruined the fun for all the other smokers.

G Man
Here is the perspective from a former smoker. I don't like going into places where there is alot of cigarette smoke. I started smoking because I was depressed alot. After some prayer, I quit smoking. Fast forward a few months. I went into a tavern that allowed smoking. My eyes were stinging from all of the smoke. I could barely breathe. I am very okay with the restrictions on smoking. Smoking cigarettes in some ways is actually worse than marijuana. Cigarette smoke is known to cause bad health issues. It's bad enough that people smoke, but blowing that stuff everywhere so other people can get second hand smoke, that is just scary. I am perfectly fine with smoking restrictions. I don't want to breathe cigarette smoke while dining. I don't want to have it around while working.
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Old 04-24-2009, 09:41 PM
 
13,815 posts, read 14,648,253 times
Reputation: 11507
smokers should be able to smoke..somewhere. smokers should not be made to feel like second class citizens. smoking is legal.

making it harder to find a place to smoke is the idea. the more expensive it is, is the idea. the more trouble it is, the more likely you will try to quit a habit that is a killer. I was a hard core smoker, over 25 years 2.5 packs a day. I was positive I loved smoking. so I do understand the need to be able to smoke when you want. it is a legal addiction, plain and simple.

addicts get very defensive about their habit. defensive, about our rights to smoke, when and where we smoke. being protective of the shrinking number of places we can get our fix is understandable. anyone who has ever been addicted to smoking and quit has the compassion to understand. people who have not smoked will never really understand what it is to need a smoke.

it is the addictive mind that tell us we "enjoy" smoking, or that we really "don't want to quit" this is called "junkie thinking"

95% of the time you can smell someone who has smoked. you can smell it on their breath, their hair, clothes, their car, inside their homes. it really is a bad smell and once you have quit you are amazed that it smells that bad and you were unable to smell it.

quitting smoking was the best thing I ever did for myself. I am no longer a slave to nicotine. no longer stopping what I am doing to light up every 15 minutes of every waking hour of my life. making sure I have the money to buy, making trips to the store to buy them, having them with me at all times. having lighters. finding a place to smoke without being treated like crap.

once you are passed the addiction you never have to worry about finding a place to slowly kill yourself with tar and nicotine.

the states are now offering the nicotine patch and no smoking clinics for the uninsured. nicotine gum is great. so is Chantax and Wellbrutrin. all of these things can help you get to a place where you won't care anymore where you "can't" smoke because you don't!

quitting is the hardest things you will ever do but once you are past it, every ounce of struggle to be free of it is worth it.
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