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Old 01-07-2010, 11:35 PM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,353 posts, read 24,094,847 times
Reputation: 8864

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Lets just make the TSA an arm of the Marines.
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Old 01-08-2010, 03:30 AM
 
Location: Colorado (PA at heart)
8,903 posts, read 13,655,028 times
Reputation: 11535
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelsup View Post
No I think it was an iPhone...
I was quoting the guy in the video.

Quote:
You must understand that coming into our country thru customs is different than traveling around inside it. The way our constitution is set up prevents authorities from asking personal questions like this.
It's not exactly personal, everyone tells someone what they do for a living on regular basis. I just told someone yesterday. It's no secret. Why refuse to answer?

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Again it's an iPhone. You can buy one off ebay or from your local AT&T store if you want to...
I have an iPhone (but by the way, there is no AT&T in the UK, the iPhone service is provided by a company called O2 in the UK) and I searched and couldn't find any app that allows you to simply pat the phone and it starts recording. Not at least without taking the phone out of your pocket and opening the app first. Please point me in the direction of this super cool secret app that I've never heard of.

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I don't believe it was ever stated the recording was done by mistake. It was done on purpose to prove a point
And the point was that if you get your panties in a twist about someone asking what you do for a living, people will find that suspicious and it will create a lot of unnecessary trouble. There's a shock.

Quote:
As NH's slogan goes, live free or die!
I guess I just don't feel this is about a lack of any freedom. If someone asked what I do for a living, I'd simply tell them... I wouldn't stop to think "WAIT, am I legally required to answer that question?" Who does that? Only someone with something to hide or someone with a political agenda. And sorry, I don't buy into set ups and agendas.
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Old 01-08-2010, 06:09 AM
 
11,933 posts, read 21,518,965 times
Reputation: 11711
Quote:
Originally Posted by PA2UK View Post
I was quoting the guy in the video.



It's not exactly personal, everyone tells someone what they do for a living on regular basis. I just told someone yesterday. It's no secret. Why refuse to answer?
No it's not personal but the point is if you don't have to tell a government official something, you don't have to do it. The guy actually was asking what was he required to tell them, and they couldn't even answer that question.

Quote:
I have an iPhone (but by the way, there is no AT&T in the UK, the iPhone service is provided by a company called O2 in the UK) and I searched and couldn't find any app that allows you to simply pat the phone and it starts recording. Not at least without taking the phone out of your pocket and opening the app first. Please point me in the direction of this super cool secret app that I've never heard of.
"Mr. Bierfeldt recorded the encounter on his iPhone and the American Civil Liberties Union filed suit in June against Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano, claiming in part that Mr. Bierfeldt’s experience at the airport was not an anomaly."

Liberty News Radio - News - TSA security searches going too far: Agency becoming its own secret police force (http://libertynewsradio.com/wire/news/2009/07/00297_TSA_security_searches_going_too_far_Agency_b ecoming_its_own_secret_police_force_002020.php - broken link)

Well I guess you can either believe me or not believe me. As to how he went about recording it, I have no idea, I thought he just recorded the conversation like you normally do on the phone. And really? Who cares how he obtained it?


Quote:
And the point was that if you get your panties in a twist about someone asking what you do for a living, people will find that suspicious and it will create a lot of unnecessary trouble. There's a shock.
That's normal but as a government official you must know what you can and cannot ask and the TSA overstepped their bounds.


Quote:
I guess I just don't feel this is about a lack of any freedom. If someone asked what I do for a living, I'd simply tell them... I wouldn't stop to think "WAIT, am I legally required to answer that question?" Who does that? Only someone with something to hide or someone with a political agenda. And sorry, I don't buy into set ups and agendas.
I can't understand how you cannot see that this is about a lack of freedom. The TSA has overstepped their bounds numerous times and this is about putting them in check. Soon they will be asking more invasive questions in the name of "security". Read that article I posted.
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Old 01-08-2010, 06:28 AM
 
Location: Colorado (PA at heart)
8,903 posts, read 13,655,028 times
Reputation: 11535
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelsup View Post
No it's not personal but the point is if you don't have to tell a government official something, you don't have to do it. The guy actually was asking what was he required to tell them, and they couldn't even answer that question.
The point is, if it's not a personal question, why refuse to answer? Refusing to answer a simple question, whether you have to or not, is naturally going to cause suspicion.

Quote:
Well I guess you can either believe me or not believe me. As to how he went about recording it, I have no idea, I thought he just recorded the conversation like you normally do on the phone. And really? Who cares how he obtained it?
Because the guy on the video in the OP said "he had one of those super duper new phones where you just pat it like your scratching your chest and it starts recording". If that is NOT what happened than the media are lying and spinning this as though it was recorded by accident. That is a big deal to me because I don't like when the media manipulate the truth to suit their agenda. If the guy was purposely recording it, he had an agenda and he is therefore not innocent of purposely provoking the TSA officers. So I have to take what happened with a grain of salt.

Quote:
That's normal but as a government official you must know what you can and cannot ask and the TSA overstepped their bounds.
Agreed, I already stated that in my first post. But I don't think they overstepped their bounds so much that it calls for this amount of outrage and secret taping. I mean, when my husband heard about this, he thought at first it was going to be a recording of the TSA officers punching the guy in the face or something. Then I actually played the recording for him and he said "That's it? That's nothing, so they were a bit unprofessional, what's the big deal?" People are making this out to be so horrendous that my husband thought there was some kind of beat down, lol.

Quote:
I can't understand how you cannot see that this is about a lack of freedom. The TSA has overstepped their bounds numerous times and this is about putting them in check. Soon they will be asking more invasive questions in the name of "security".
Because all they were doing was asking some simple, basic questions. Maybe we're not required by law to answer them but frankly, I wouldn't mind if we were so just freaking answer them. I don't see how telling a TSA officer what I do for a living is somehow an infringment on my freedom or how it will undoubtedly lead to more invasive and nothing you can say will change my feelings on that.

Quote:
Read that article I posted
No thanks, I've had enough propaganda for one day I think we're starting to go in circles here and I'm repeating myself so there's no sense carrying on.
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Old 01-08-2010, 07:14 AM
 
14,253 posts, read 15,329,100 times
Reputation: 13682
I think the point here is that the TSA were acting outwith their jurisdiction and probably illegaly. Their job is to make sure you don't take certain prohibited items onto an airplane. Cash is not a prohibited item.

The TSA are not police officers and they are not immigration officers. If they think that a crime is being committed then, like any other citizen, they should inform a police officer who does have the authority to ask such questions. They should not be looking to usurp that authority.

As a frequent flyer, I have had no problems with TSA screeners except for gross inefficiency at LAX. Other airports have been fine. However, I have had problems with their burgeoning "database" which the ACLU estimates has over 1,000,000 names on it a great many of whom are "false positives". The TSA shows no real desire to clean up this database, no real desire to make simple technical improvements which would increase its accuracy and no real desire to be responsive to travellers who are on the database because they have the misfortune to have a comon name.

Overall, what you are seeing at the TSA is the usual bureaucratic "power grab" and there is insufficient democratic oversight and control to temper this.
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Old 01-12-2010, 03:25 PM
 
12,276 posts, read 18,401,528 times
Reputation: 19102
That is absolutely correct. The TSA have no police powers (and of course no police training), they can call police and have them readily available. They cannot arrest you, they cannot physically restrain you, they can't put a hand on you without permission, they can't search you without your permission.

They CAN of course refuse access to an area, the gate area, if you refuse any of the above (and even then, what they request must be within their mandate and, as seen, that gets abused from time to time). But again this refusal must be voluntarily accepted by the public, they have no power to enforce it - they are required to have the police to force compliance if it is not voluntary.

A TSA agent threatening a passenger with handcuffs can, in theory, be arrested. Possibly, depending on local laws, for impersonating a law enforcement officer.
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Old 11-18-2010, 03:40 PM
 
Location: Florida
3,359 posts, read 6,539,930 times
Reputation: 1891
Males check males...and females check females...

I heard it rumored that the TSA will now be the employment of choice for lesbian and gay orientated people...

I mean it will be like a dream job for them...a custom fit job...
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Old 11-18-2010, 03:53 PM
 
Location: Viña del Mar, Chile
16,411 posts, read 26,228,275 times
Reputation: 16496
These people just do these things to make a point. Why does it seem like the only people this stuff happens to are people causing some sort of uproar or doing something sshady in the first place? It reminds me of that UCLA student who got tazed by the police and then cried police brutatlity. I feel bad for TSA agents who have to deal with idiots every day who fall into the media thinking "ohhh im losing my freedom. I'd be in a pretty bad mood too if I had to deal with even 1/4 of the idiots i see that fly.
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Old 11-18-2010, 04:03 PM
 
Location: Florida
3,359 posts, read 6,539,930 times
Reputation: 1891
Gay and lesbians have finally found a job that allows the legal groping and handling of others of their same sex...

It's a fantacy job come true, if one is same sex orientated....

Cause I can't think of to many 'hetro's' who would be interested in squeezing other hetros junks, for 8 hours a day...
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Old 11-18-2010, 04:24 PM
 
Location: San Diego
5,027 posts, read 13,411,766 times
Reputation: 4849
Quote:
Originally Posted by Time and Space View Post

I heard it rumored that the TSA will now be the employment of choice for lesbian and gay orientated people...

I mean it will be like a dream job for them...a custom fit job...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Time and Space View Post
Gay and lesbians have finally found a job that allows the legal groping and handling of others of their same sex...

It's a fantacy job come true, if one is same sex orientated....

Cause I can't think of to many 'hetro's' who would be interested in squeezing other hetros junks, for 8 hours a day...
You're an idiot, plain and simple. I assume you're not gay, based on your bigoted statements. Would you get pleasure from touching every single opposite sex person that comes your way? Of course not, and neither do homosexuals. People like you have serious mental issues. Get the hell over yourself, you narrow minded bigot.
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