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Old 04-20-2009, 08:08 PM
 
11,933 posts, read 21,518,965 times
Reputation: 11711

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Quote:
Originally Posted by revelated View Post
know why? Because they know they can get away with it.
I'll tell you why....because they're still losing money....they're not getting away with anything. And even if they do eek out a profit next quarter they still lose more than they make over the long term.

Your idea has been tried, it sucks, move on.
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Old 04-20-2009, 08:28 PM
 
Location: Mission Viejo, CA
2,498 posts, read 10,288,042 times
Reputation: 1598
Quote:
Originally Posted by revelated View Post
Look at the articles you posted. They all talk about sky high gas prices. Gas prices aren't sky high anymore.
Your right. Oil prices aren't high anymore. The airlines got something just as bad: A worldwide global recession. People don't have that extra $400-$500 anymore for a slightly roomier seat. People are not eating out as much, aren't buying big tv's, aren't going on as many vacations, and the casual traveler is not paying $400 more for a premium economy type seat.

The airline industry is struggling not because people don't want to fly in economy seats, but because people can't afford to fly right now even in economy. Yesterday it was sky high oil prices and today it is a global recession with passengers that can't afford to fly.

Premium air travel is down by the way: IATA: Feb Premium Air Travel Down 21.1% On Year
In February 2009, 21% less people bought a premium ticket than in 2008. That is huge and a sign that people no longer have the money to buy more than the lowest class, economy. NOT exactly the business climate for a slightly more expensive airline seat.
Including all classes, air travel was down 10.9% in January 09 over January 08: http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/djf500/200904161201DOWJONESDJONLINE000877_FORTUNE5.htm (broken link)
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Old 04-20-2009, 08:55 PM
 
2,639 posts, read 5,216,755 times
Reputation: 2352
Quote:
Originally Posted by missionhome View Post
Your right. Oil prices aren't high anymore. The airlines got something just as bad: A worldwide global recession. People don't have that extra $400-$500 anymore for a slightly roomier seat. People are not eating out as much, aren't buying big tv's, aren't going on as many vacations, and the casual traveler is not paying $400 more for a premium economy type seat.

The airline industry is struggling not because people don't want to fly in economy seats, but because people can't afford to fly right now even in economy. Yesterday it was sky high oil prices and today it is a global recession with passengers that can't afford to fly.

Premium air travel is down by the way: IATA: Feb Premium Air Travel Down 21.1% On Year
In February 2009, 21% less people bought a premium ticket than in 2008. That is huge and a sign that people no longer have the money to buy more than the lowest class, economy. NOT exactly the business climate for a slightly more expensive airline seat.
Including all classes, air travel was down 10.9% in January 09 over January 08: US Airline Traffic Fell 10.9% In Jan Vs. Jan '08 (http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/djf500/200904161201DOWJONESDJONLINE000877_FORTUNE5.htm - broken link)
Hmm, that's funny.

UTalkMarketing - Women still spending on luxury items

Luxury consumers still spending big

Ten Things Customers Are Still Buying | Real-World Retailing

Blu-ray sales nearly double from a year ago | LCD, Plasma, HDTV, TV, Projector Reviews
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Old 04-21-2009, 05:30 AM
 
11,933 posts, read 21,518,965 times
Reputation: 11711
Quote:
Originally Posted by revelated View Post
Did you even read this link?

"Despite the credit crunch, women’s ‘sense of entitlement’ to little luxuries for themselves"

Little luxuries as in Starbucks, yeah, good call posting that link!

Quote:
Originally Posted by revelated
You didn't read this one either?

"China's luxury market is less affected than others by the global economic slowdown. Luxury sales fell 20 percent and 25 percent in Europe and the US, respectively, this year, but only dropped 5 percent in China, according to figures from the WLA."

Good to know you might be able to start an airline in China. Wait no you can't, the Government stopped approving all air carrier applications last year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by revelated
"The article highlights several product categories that saw sales increases last year as follows:

  • Personal Care, gyms
  • Video Games, SmartPhones and netbooks
  • Gyms
  • Toy building sets
  • Car maintenance
  • Dress casual shoes
  • Restaurants
  • Movie tickets"
So...Mr. revelated, where exactly is "first class airline ticket" on that list?

OK let's examine this one. DVD sales each year are around $20 billion. 9 million Blueray sales @ $25/pop (over estimation for sure) equals $225 million in Blueray sales. It's not hard to double your sales when you are starting from such a low point. In addition how does a $25 movie compare to a $700 plane ticket? Answer: it doesn't.

Here's a question for you. How do you make a million dollars in the airline business? Answer: You start with $100 million.

You post several articles that have pretty much nothing to do with airline ticket sales to refute posts (and quarterly reports from the airlines) that show a significant drop off in purchases. That's not even logical. This is just starting to get dumb now.

Last edited by wheelsup; 04-21-2009 at 05:44 AM..
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Old 04-21-2009, 07:11 AM
 
Location: Coffee Bean
659 posts, read 1,552,727 times
Reputation: 818
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelsup View Post
Did you even read this link?

"Despite the credit crunch, women’s ‘sense of entitlement’ to little luxuries for themselves"

Little luxuries as in Starbucks, yeah, good call posting that link!



You didn't read this one either?

"China's luxury market is less affected than others by the global economic slowdown. Luxury sales fell 20 percent and 25 percent in Europe and the US, respectively, this year, but only dropped 5 percent in China, according to figures from the WLA."

Good to know you might be able to start an airline in China. Wait no you can't, the Government stopped approving all air carrier applications last year.



"The article highlights several product categories that saw sales increases last year as follows:

  • Personal Care, gyms
  • Video Games, SmartPhones and netbooks
  • Gyms
  • Toy building sets
  • Car maintenance
  • Dress casual shoes
  • Restaurants
  • Movie tickets"
So...Mr. revelated, where exactly is "first class airline ticket" on that list?



OK let's examine this one. DVD sales each year are around $20 billion. 9 million Blueray sales @ $25/pop (over estimation for sure) equals $225 million in Blueray sales. It's not hard to double your sales when you are starting from such a low point. In addition how does a $25 movie compare to a $700 plane ticket? Answer: it doesn't.

Here's a question for you. How do you make a million dollars in the airline business? Answer: You start with $100 million.

You post several articles that have pretty much nothing to do with airline ticket sales to refute posts (and quarterly reports from the airlines) that show a significant drop off in purchases. That's not even logical. This is just starting to get dumb now.

Ummmmmm..... I don't mean to sound stupid, but what exactly does all this have to do with charging overweight people for an extra seat??
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Old 04-21-2009, 08:07 AM
 
11,933 posts, read 21,518,965 times
Reputation: 11711
It's called getting off on a tangent, in response to revelated's posts.
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Old 04-21-2009, 08:10 AM
 
Location: Bergen County, NJ
1,603 posts, read 3,643,449 times
Reputation: 1838
I can't help but feel badly for big-boned people. If society isn't harsh enough for eating carbs and being over a size 12, here comes the next step in making heavy people feel inadequate. If that isn't enough to make them join Jenny Craig, I'm not sure what is.
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Old 04-24-2009, 07:46 PM
Status: "I hate living in Georgia!!" (set 10 days ago)
 
48,082 posts, read 45,465,557 times
Reputation: 15326
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImCurlybelle View Post
I can't help but feel badly for big-boned people. If society isn't harsh enough for eating carbs and being over a size 12, here comes the next step in making heavy people feel inadequate. If that isn't enough to make them join Jenny Craig, I'm not sure what is.
There is this to consider too. You also have weightlifters who will naturally have more mass. They aren't "fat". They just weigh more.
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Old 04-26-2009, 04:23 PM
 
2,639 posts, read 5,216,755 times
Reputation: 2352
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelsup View Post
It's called getting off on a tangent, in response to revelated's posts.
Tangent is what I would describe as well. Meaning you missed the point.

The reason this side discussion started, is to explain why the airlines see fit to charge overweight people if they are so big as to consume two seats. My counter argument is that on some airlines, the seats are so tiny, that a person who is not really overweight might end up taking two seats unintentionally. United is one such airline - it's so cramped that unless you're Paris Hilton, it's blatantly uncomfortable to even put your elbows down.

My initial point is that the legislation should require the airlines do everything they can to ensure that the seat widths and leg room are sufficient and reasonable before allowing such a policy. I then go on to state accurately that JetBlue seems to have no problem with this - if you're taking up two JetBlue seats, then yes, you're too big and paying for both seats is well warranted, but in a plane done by United or some Continental planes, it's not enough. People counter saying "voted with their wallets!!" No - the airlines were greedy and priced them too high, period.

The bottom line is, for the majority of airlines where the seats are clearly insufficient for comfort and are too easy to violate the "overweight" deal even if you're not overweight, it's analagous to charging for an extra ticket on a rollercoaster when you have to take up a whole bench, even though the theme park knowingly made the seats too small for more than two people. It's ludicrous.
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Old 04-27-2009, 05:43 AM
 
Location: The Raider Nation._ Our band kicks brass
1,854 posts, read 8,741,043 times
Reputation: 2308
Quote:
Originally Posted by revelated View Post
My counter argument is that on some airlines, the seats are so tiny, that a person who is not really overweight might end up taking two seats unintentionally.

It seems that everything you are saying runs on the assumption that airlines build the seats, and can make them any size they want.


From design start to delivery, it takes Boeing, and Airbus 20 years to build an airplane. They decide how wide a fuselage is going to be. The FAA has strict regulations on how wide the aisle has to be.

The aircraft manufacturer then gives those dimensions to the seat manufacturer. That is how the size of the seat is determined. The airlines are the final customer, and have no say so in the matter. The only thing they can do is decide how many coach seats they want, and how many first class seats they want.

The average Airbus fuselage is about $55 million. The engines are another $7 million each. After loading up with 45,000 pounds of fuel, paying the salaries of two mandated pilots, three mandated flight attendants, several licensed mechanics, a dozen baggage handlers, a reservationist, three gate agents, a crew scheduler, and a dispatcher for every single flight, how long do you think it would take to pay off those airplanes? Don't forget to add in licensing, landing fees, advertising, crew meals, motels, and a slew of other costs that have to be added in for every flight.

It's a major balancing act between how many people to load on an airplane, how much to charge, and how not to go broke.

Southwest Airlines put out a report that said an average of 1.7 people less on every flight, would have been the difference between making money and going broke last year.
One row of seats is six people. If they would have removed one row of seats like you suggested, they would have gone out of business. Congratulations, you just managed to destroy a very successful airline with one uninformed idea.
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