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Old 04-27-2009, 06:20 AM
 
11,965 posts, read 21,581,612 times
Reputation: 11791

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Quote:
Originally Posted by revelated View Post
Tangent is what I would describe as well. Meaning you missed the point.
You can't be serious. Wait, are you? You say I missed the point when I was countering your argument about people still buying luxury goods? You're the one who brought up the whole tangent buddy, way back in the thread about "all first class fares" and such.

You didn't do so well on the debate team, did you?
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Old 04-27-2009, 09:09 PM
 
2,639 posts, read 5,224,292 times
Reputation: 2352
Quote:
Originally Posted by South Range Family View Post
It seems that everything you are saying runs on the assumption that airlines build the seats, and can make them any size they want.


From design start to delivery, it takes Boeing, and Airbus 20 years to build an airplane. They decide how wide a fuselage is going to be. The FAA has strict regulations on how wide the aisle has to be.

The aircraft manufacturer then gives those dimensions to the seat manufacturer. That is how the size of the seat is determined. The airlines are the final customer, and have no say so in the matter. The only thing they can do is decide how many coach seats they want, and how many first class seats they want.

The average Airbus fuselage is about $55 million. The engines are another $7 million each. After loading up with 45,000 pounds of fuel, paying the salaries of two mandated pilots, three mandated flight attendants, several licensed mechanics, a dozen baggage handlers, a reservationist, three gate agents, a crew scheduler, and a dispatcher for every single flight, how long do you think it would take to pay off those airplanes? Don't forget to add in licensing, landing fees, advertising, crew meals, motels, and a slew of other costs that have to be added in for every flight.

It's a major balancing act between how many people to load on an airplane, how much to charge, and how not to go broke.

Southwest Airlines put out a report that said an average of 1.7 people less on every flight, would have been the difference between making money and going broke last year.
One row of seats is six people. If they would have removed one row of seats like you suggested, they would have gone out of business. Congratulations, you just managed to destroy a very successful airline with one uninformed idea.
*sigh* Why do so many people believe these "reports" from big business? Southwest is going broke because quite frankly, people are not flying nearly as much. And when they do fly, guess what airline they use? Hint: It's not Southwest.

Travel Weekly (http://www.twcrossroads.com/article3_ektid193390.aspx - broken link)

Don't you think, considering JetBlue doesn't have a fraction of the connecting points of the others, that it's mighty funny that JetBlue is the only airline turning a profit?

People are coming around, period. They want a quality of flight. Yes, they were stupid before. But they're coming around. The other airlines need to sit up and take notice.

And I never implied that the airlines control the manufacturing of the seats. All I'm saying is that it's possible to improve the flying experience without ripping the customer off. I don't give a flying whit what happened a decade or two ago. This is now. The economy is tough, people are cautious with the cash. Make a quality experience at a fair price, and people will go for it.
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Old 04-28-2009, 06:43 AM
 
Location: The Raider Nation._ Our band kicks brass
1,854 posts, read 8,750,953 times
Reputation: 2310
Quote:
Originally Posted by revelated View Post
*sigh* Why do so many people believe these "reports" from big business? Southwest is going broke because quite frankly, people are not flying nearly as much. And when they do fly, guess what airline they use? Hint: It's not Southwest..

"People" believe these reports because they are industry reports, and we are in the industry. These are our own studies. Southwest isn't going broke, but they would be if they removed seats like you suggested.

.[/quote]
And I never implied that the airlines control the manufacturing of the seats..[/quote]

You most certainly did. You said that some airlines are using seats that are too narrow for people to sit in. You then used United Airlines as an example. You also keep using JetBlue as a shining start that uses wider seats. That again is not true. They use the same seats.

JetBlue was started in 1999. They don't have pensions to pay. They don't have topped out employee rates, and they steal employees from other airlines once they are trained. They don't have their own schools. JetBlue is a shining start that will fade very quickly when longevity and maintenance catches up to them.

.[/quote]
All I'm saying is that it's possible to improve the flying experience without ripping the customer off. I don't give a flying whit what happened a decade or two ago. This is now. The economy is tough, people are cautious with the cash. Make a quality experience at a fair price, and people will go for it.[/quote]

I don't understand why you think this was all decades ago. Our studies, and trends are all up to date. You would make a great politician. You continue to argue even after several people have proven you wrong.
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Old 04-28-2009, 06:51 AM
 
Location: The Raider Nation._ Our band kicks brass
1,854 posts, read 8,750,953 times
Reputation: 2310
Quote:
Originally Posted by revelated View Post
Tangent is what I would describe as well. Meaning you missed the point.

The reason this side discussion started, is to explain why the airlines see fit to charge overweight people if they are so big as to consume two seats. My counter argument is that on some airlines, the seats are so tiny, that a person who is not really overweight might end up taking two seats unintentionally. United is one such airline - it's so cramped that unless you're Paris Hilton, it's blatantly uncomfortable to even put your elbows down.

My initial point is that the legislation should require the airlines do everything they can to ensure that the seat widths and leg room are sufficient and reasonable before allowing such a policy. I then go on to state accurately that JetBlue seems to have no problem with this - if you're taking up two JetBlue seats, then yes, you're too big and paying for both seats is well warranted, but in a plane done by United or some Continental planes, it's not enough. People counter saying "voted with their wallets!!" No - the airlines were greedy and priced them too high, period.

The bottom line is, for the majority of airlines where the seats are clearly insufficient for comfort and are too easy to violate the "overweight" deal even if you're not overweight, it's analagous to charging for an extra ticket on a rollercoaster when you have to take up a whole bench, even though the theme park knowingly made the seats too small for more than two people. It's ludicrous.

And this is where you said it. It is very clear that you don't have a clue about how airlines and airplanes work.
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Old 04-28-2009, 08:28 PM
 
Location: The Raider Nation._ Our band kicks brass
1,854 posts, read 8,750,953 times
Reputation: 2310
That's really weird. Two times I typed shining star, and it ended up start. I need to proof read better.
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Old 05-02-2009, 11:03 AM
 
Location: That's a secret...
10 posts, read 150,312 times
Reputation: 19
I am pretty sure those who require more seating space than average will definitely going to be displeased. Possibly some of them might even go on riots against how they are being a discriminated group in society because of this! Their argument would be something like this, "Why must I pay more the same service as everyone else? Just because I have a larger bosom than everyone else I am getting charged more?!".
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Old 01-20-2012, 07:48 PM
 
Location: Texas
43,588 posts, read 52,772,341 times
Reputation: 70912
Quote:
Originally Posted by azoria View Post
We all know that you can't take heavy luggage on a plane anymore without being charged. But United Airlines, in an attempt to rain on the parade of the "you can have your cake and eat it, too," crowd, has just announced that people packing extra pounds may pay more for their tickets as well. They have three new rules, as they mention on their web site. You will pay for an extra ticket or be forced to upgrade where you'll have more room (or be exited off the plane if you refuse) if:

  • you're unable to fit into a single seat in the ticketed cabin.
  • you're unable to properly buckle the seat belt using a single seat belt extender
  • you're unable to put the seat's arm rests down when seated.

Overweight? United Airlines may charge you extra
Do you have any idea how overweight you have to be to meet these criteria? And you even get an extender!

Other people have to sit next to you. Being able to stay in your own damn seat is the least you can do.
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