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Old 01-07-2010, 06:21 PM
 
1,780 posts, read 2,166,507 times
Reputation: 5877

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I'm a baby boomer and I remember when flying was a fairly easy affair. You checked in at the counter, got your ticket, family walked you to the gate and you chatted with them until they called your flight.

Once on the flight, you had a decent snack and then grabbed a pillow and a blanket, turned on your walkman and had a little nap to pass the time.

I know half a dozen people who've told me - since this latest incident on Christmas Day, "I hope I never have to set foot on an airplane again." I've had one person tell me that they flew a few days ago and were forced to stow their carry-ons and leave all electronic devices turned off and stowed *throughout* the flight! Now that sounds miserable!!

I'm traveling to Illinois in less than 30 days. A year ago, I would have booked a flight on American Airlines. Not now. I've had it. I've really had it. In my job, I had to fly a lot from 2002 - 2006, but no more. Thank goodness for that.

For this trip to Illinois, I booked a roomette on an Amtrak for a price that's about $100 more than the airline's fee. When the Amtrak rolls up to the station, I'll grab my bags, kiss the hubby good-bye, step up on the train and I'll be on my way. This is my 15th train trip. It's so easy and pleasant to travel by train.

And an interesting aside: When I booked my roomette on the Amtrak, I was told there were only two seats left on the long train to Chicago.

My point is, *everyone* hates flying these and lots of people - like me - are voting with their wallets. I've read that Amtrak is adding trains and cars and routes. And I wonder what's going to happen to the airlines? Are they making flying *SO* awful that they're going to go out of business?

I kinda hope so. Then we can divert that $13 billion annual subsidy (currently paid out to the airlines) to the rail system and make it a shining example of mass transit.

How about you? Have you given up on flying the not-so-friendly skies?

Rose
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Old 01-07-2010, 08:10 PM
 
13,169 posts, read 20,791,547 times
Reputation: 35444
Of course not. You might resent the added security, I see it as a necessary sign of the times. I'm sure the airlines would be happier without the added delays, additional personnel, passenger arguments, etc. Flying is still the fastest, most direct method of getting from point A to point B.
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Old 01-07-2010, 08:14 PM
 
Location: In the sticks, SC
1,642 posts, read 4,522,712 times
Reputation: 1080
I don't understand what the complaining is all about. Would you rather be sitting next to somebody with a bomb strapped too his tookas As the last incident showed, security isn't tight enough
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Old 01-07-2010, 08:35 PM
 
4,919 posts, read 19,859,989 times
Reputation: 6215
Everyone complain about the security being such a problem. Everyone complain about TSA being heavy handed. Everyone complain about having to do this or that. bet those same people will be the first to complain and yell about security not being tight enough if they were on the plane 25 December when that guy tried to blow it up. Everyone wants security for the other guy but not themself.
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Old 01-07-2010, 09:04 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
951 posts, read 1,780,675 times
Reputation: 1284
Quote:
Originally Posted by mongoslade223 View Post
I don't understand what the complaining is all about. Would you rather be sitting next to somebody with a bomb strapped too his tookas As the last incident showed, security isn't tight enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by PacificFlights View Post
Everyone complain about the security being such a problem. Everyone complain about TSA being heavy handed. Everyone complain about having to do this or that. bet those same people will be the first to complain and yell about security not being tight enough if they were on the plane 25 December when that guy tried to blow it up. Everyone wants security for the other guy but not themself.
I just don't get this arguement of we need more security. We need appropriate security. The billions we have invested since 9/11 have done nothing to enhance aviation safety and the underpant bomber showed just how many holes there are in our security.

Security now is a total, dismal failure and since 12/25 the DHS has been running around like a headless chicken.

The TSA is the biggest workfare scheme going and is totally out of control. What about the gate gropes going on now, WTF did they miss the first time around when we went through security, it's absolutely maddening.

What we need is appropriate security. By that I mean profiling and better integration of the intelligence we are getting in order to link the dots. We also need to be much more aware of who we are thinking of letting in to the country and putting a lot more pressure on other governments to weed out the fruitcakes. Finally we need to stop treating our own citizens from kids to grandmothers as an equal threat and develop a secure traveller program for those of us who have to travel as part of earning a living.

If we carry on with this "sky is falling" thinking, the only way we will be allowed to travel on an airplane in the next few years will strapped naked to our seats, sedated, from take off to landing. Then the terrorists will simply decide to move the goalposts and start taking pot shots at planes with shoulder mounted missiles from outside the airport environment. That is the next development that is worrying our security folks according to an NPR newspiece I heard earlier this week.... I think we should take this threat much more seriously.

- Tim
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Old 01-07-2010, 09:20 PM
 
11,938 posts, read 21,523,778 times
Reputation: 11714
Quote:
Originally Posted by RosemaryT View Post
I know half a dozen people who've told me - since this latest incident on Christmas Day, "I hope I never have to set foot on an airplane again." I've had one person tell me that they flew a few days ago and were forced to stow their carry-ons and leave all electronic devices turned off and stowed *throughout* the flight! Now that sounds miserable!!
A lot said that after 9/11 too.

Quote:
For this trip to Illinois, I booked a roomette on an Amtrak for a price that's about $100 more than the airline's fee. When the Amtrak rolls up to the station, I'll grab my bags, kiss the hubby good-bye, step up on the train and I'll be on my way. This is my 15th train trip. It's so easy and pleasant to travel by train.
Amtrak also shows a mid-60% on time percentage vs. the airlines 75%-80%. Easy and pleasant if you have the extra time...a coast to coast trip on Amtrak is 4 days, on a plane it's 4 hours.

Quote:
My point is, *everyone* hates flying these and lots of people - like me - are voting with their wallets. I've read that Amtrak is adding trains and cars and routes. And I wonder what's going to happen to the airlines? Are they making flying *SO* awful that they're going to go out of business?
The airlines aren't making flying aweful, the government is. Just wait till someone tries to bomb Amtrak.

Quote:
I kinda hope so. Then we can divert that $13 billion annual subsidy (currently paid out to the airlines) to the rail system and make it a shining example of mass transit.
I'm not sure where you got that $13 billion figure but you conveniently leave out Amtrak is a government run monopoly that has yet to ever make any money and has extremely bloated pay rolls. With a record ridership of 28 million last year and subsidies of $2.6 billion starting in 2008, that equals out to $90/person. Using your $13 billion figure and my 809 million passenger count, the airline subsidy is only $16/person. Amtrak subsidies are 5.6 times what they are for the airlines.

Quote:
How about you? Have you given up on flying the not-so-friendly skies?

Rose
No one because it's my job and two because people still would rather sit for 1-4 hours on a plane vs. 10-50 or more on a train.
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Old 01-07-2010, 09:26 PM
 
13,169 posts, read 20,791,547 times
Reputation: 35444
The TSA and the airlines are two separate entities. The airlines are taking the rap for the failures of a government agency that is setting the regulations. Again, I don't resent them, but I agree they can vastly improve their procedures.

Cruise ships, trains, buses, are all also vulnerable to attack. But, flights have already been attacked, and international flights have the highest risk of attempted terrorism because overseas security is not always as stringent as it should be. First, they have to get here to do damage via alternate methods of transportation. It just makes sense to allocate the greatest manpower to the airports right now, while keeping an eye out for the rest.
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Old 01-07-2010, 09:41 PM
 
Location: In the sticks, SC
1,642 posts, read 4,522,712 times
Reputation: 1080
Quote:
Originally Posted by timfountain View Post
I just don't get this arguement of we need more security. We need appropriate security. The billions we have invested since 9/11 have done nothing to enhance aviation safety and the underpant bomber showed just how many holes there are in our security.

Security now is a total, dismal failure and since 12/25 the DHS has been running around like a headless chicken.

The TSA is the biggest workfare scheme going and is totally out of control. What about the gate gropes going on now, WTF did they miss the first time around when we went through security, it's absolutely maddening.

What we need is appropriate security. By that I mean profiling and better integration of the intelligence we are getting in order to link the dots. We also need to be much more aware of who we are thinking of letting in to the country and putting a lot more pressure on other governments to weed out the fruitcakes. Finally we need to stop treating our own citizens from kids to grandmothers as an equal threat and develop a secure traveller program for those of us who have to travel as part of earning a living.

If we carry on with this "sky is falling" thinking, the only way we will be allowed to travel on an airplane in the next few years will strapped naked to our seats, sedated, from take off to landing. Then the terrorists will simply decide to move the goalposts and start taking pot shots at planes with shoulder mounted missiles from outside the airport environment. That is the next development that is worrying our security folks according to an NPR newspiece I heard earlier this week.... I think we should take this threat much more seriously.

- Tim
So your problem with them is their not hassling the right people.....okay now I get it
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Old 01-07-2010, 11:11 PM
 
14,260 posts, read 23,987,654 times
Reputation: 20072
Do you want SERIOUS security check procedures? Try those from El Al Airlines:

BW Online | August 25, 2003 | El Al's Security Vs. the U.S. Approach


See Sections 7 and 8:

GeneralCOnditionsCarriage091207 | EL AL Airlines

By the way, plan to show up three hours before the flight to ensure that you get through the secuity procedures prior to the flight.
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Old 01-07-2010, 11:14 PM
 
9,807 posts, read 13,457,708 times
Reputation: 8158
Yes, doing a better job of screening the no-fly list would have prevented the Dec 25 incident.

But,as someone stated on the news, the no-fly list does nothing to stop someone from boarding using a fake name that matches a fake passport/visa

Screening at boarding is still the #1 prevention.
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