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Old 02-19-2010, 07:20 AM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,353 posts, read 24,084,481 times
Reputation: 8864

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Tyvin,

You do make numerous valid points. I dont think its OK to be fat (I really dont want to be PC). For the numerous people who gorge themselves, they should be charged quadruple for the strain they cause on the system. But then you have the fat population who dont gorge themselves, but still get heavier. They go to the gym and still get heavier. What does that percentage of the population do?
The Medical system in the US wants us to feel like their helping, but in fact they are a for profit business. We as a nation are getting sicker more often. IMHO we are being poisoned by our food companies. Our gov't says it protecting us and says the poisons are within safety limits. Look at the past for beef. We had mad cow dicease that didnt come from nowhere. They stick hormones and junk in their feed and it passes to us. Look at veggies giving us salmonella poisoning. I remember a time upwards of the 80's when no one got sick from eating fruits and veggies. You could eat it on the trip home. Now you cant. You have to take it home and heavily wash it. At that time we could eat raw eggs and no one got sick. We wouldnt even attempt it today. Our drug companies dont help, just ask anyone on one and what lovely side effects it has. Look at whos sick now, its us the end of the baby boomer generation. Poeple in their 60's and above dont have the issues we are having. And our kids are getting the next level of worse - too much electronics. Our kids don't walk anywhere, they dont bicycle anywhere, dont have any hobbies, dont play any street games, etc....
They eat crappy food, schools have vending machines filled with crap. We as a planet dont fight anything anymore. When was the last time we rallied against something - Viet Nam? We go with the flow. We have just about enough energy to go to work and come home.

BTW - I am not a vegan or vegetarian. And the only way I'll buy meat today is if its kosher or hallel. I hate fast food but when there is no viable place to get an inexpensive meal then there no choice (not many diners left out there) but to get fast food.

Last edited by Pruzhany; 02-19-2010 at 07:27 AM.. Reason: edit
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Old 02-19-2010, 08:36 AM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,353 posts, read 24,084,481 times
Reputation: 8864
Annerk,

We as a nation are consumers. We create nothing. We trust the govt. With trust big business. We say that we dont, but where is anyone fighting the system? The 70's kids were the last. Consumers are trained to enjoy this crap by big business. They do everything to entice the pleasure zones in our brains. You are a minority in whats is your fridge. You have time to prepare things (most of us dont) We are the Not-My-Fault generation and I agree we should attempt to restrain ourselves and go back to the 50's lifestyle of eating and exercising. But, We as Americans take joy where ever we can find it. And we want it quickly. We have no patience for anything. Your 98% number is way to large a number. The gorgers yes I agree. But then you have a growing part that is getting fatter. What has changed? Our jobs. They use the mind more than the bodies. Our bodies get no workouts. We barely walk around the buildings we are in. Staircases are closed off so we cant see them or are alarmed from use - thus elevators in two flight buildings. We dont walk around our offices anymore - we IM, email, have conference calls, etc..... - thus we are sedentary. We work longer hours, we commute longer, we do work at home just to keep our jobs. I really enjoy walking into a Golds Gym at 9pm, do you think I really get a full workout. I'm lucky if I can get 45 minutes in before I need to go home and crash.
Quote:

The answer is simple. IT'S NOT OK TO BE FAT! Get off your lardass, lose weight, eat right, excercise, and be healthy.
It really isnt that simple anymore. Just ask anyone in their 40's or early 50's.

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don't ask for my health insurance to be higher to pay for your obesity related illness, and don't ask for a dime of my tax money to pay for your medicais when you become disabled due to something you did to yourself.
Then fine dont have me pay for the cancer treatments that go absolutely nowhere. For every cancer we placate another few new ones come out. We pay more because our doctors bill more. We dont have country doctors anymore. Our doctors dont think anymore. We have doctors who go test crazy. Then we have hospitals that bill for everything under the sun and then some. And why do they bill more, because the insurance companies pay less for each individual claim. So doctors have to break their bills into little pieces to be paid more. Its a vicious cycle. Read your medical statements (unless you are under medicare, then you really dont have one to compare to).

And as to the flying part. How comfy are you sitting in a seat that that is 16" wide? Dollar for dollar it cost me less to fly now than it did 20 years ago (no adjustments for inflation). We had $99 trips then and we have $59 trips now. Explain it. The airlines just keep on packing us in. Look up the seats on older planes, they were wider and deeper. We had leg room. Now we are being fee'd to death to have these luxuries. We pay for a seat to have leg room (upwards of $40). We pay for wider (business class or buy 2nd seat). Fuel prices have come down from their $4ish high, but the fees associated with it are still in place. Now they are charging for the 1st piece of luggage. Just wait for them to charge for each carry-on, its coming. So stop blaming fat for all the woes in flying. If you want airlines to screen for fat, then they need to list on their webpages what their seats can realistically handle - but they dont. But they will list the seats that have extra legroom for a fee.
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Old 02-19-2010, 08:53 AM
 
26,590 posts, read 54,571,346 times
Reputation: 13019
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilVA View Post
Annerk,

We as a nation are consumers. We create nothing. We trust the govt. With trust big business. We say that we dont, but where is anyone fighting the system? The 70's kids were the last. Consumers are trained to enjoy this crap by big business. They do everything to entice the pleasure zones in our brains. You are a minority in whats is your fridge. You have time to prepare things (most of us dont) We are the Not-My-Fault generation and I agree we should attempt to restrain ourselves and go back to the 50's lifestyle of eating and exercising. But, We as Americans take joy where ever we can find it. And we want it quickly. We have no patience for anything. Your 98% number is way to large a number. The gorgers yes I agree. But then you have a growing part that is getting fatter. What has changed? Our jobs. They use the mind more than the bodies. Our bodies get no workouts. We barely walk around the buildings we are in. Staircases are closed off so we cant see them or are alarmed from use - thus elevators in two flight buildings. We dont walk around our offices anymore - we IM, email, have conference calls, etc..... - thus we are sedentary. We work longer hours, we commute longer, we do work at home just to keep our jobs. I really enjoy walking into a Golds Gym at 9pm, do you think I really get a full workout. I'm lucky if I can get 45 minutes in before I need to go home and crash.
I'm not sure what your point is. Healthy living is a way of life. My 23 year old works in a warehouse on his feet all day. He comes home, has dinner, and then sits in front of the TV or computer. He's also lean with a six-pack. It's not the governments fault that people are fat--that's a cop out. It's no ones fault but their own. If they lead sedentary lives than their calorie intake should match and guess what? They won't gain weight.

And time to prepare things? Puh-lease. I work a full time job as well as having a freelance business. Time is a precious commodity. ANYONE can make the time if they want to, people choose to do any number of things instead. Don't try that cop out on me. "Oh, I didn't ahve time to make a lunch so I'll eat at McDonalds. Bullcrap, In the time it takes to stand in line and order, you could have made a sandwich at home. it's a matter of having prioroties, and I contend that most obese people have really screwed up prioroties.

By the way, I grow my own vegetables as well. Total time is maybe 3-4 hours a year to save a LOT of money and have fresh or frozen vegetables grown with no pesticides.

Quote:
It really isnt that simple anymore. Just ask anyone in their 40's or early 50's.
Yes it is. I'm pushing 50 and watch my weight, which gets more difficult as I get older, so I put the extra effort into it. It's really not that difficult.

Quote:
Then fine dont have me pay for the cancer treatments that go absolutely nowhere. For every cancer we placate another few new ones come out. We pay more because our doctors bill more. We dont have country doctors anymore. Our doctors dont think anymore. We have doctors who go test crazy. Then we have hospitals that bill for everything under the sun and then some. And why do they bill more, because the insurance companies pay less for each individual claim. So doctors have to break their bills into little pieces to be paid more. Its a vicious cycle. Read your medical statements (unless you are under medicare, then you really dont have one to compare to).
Actually my doctor isn't "test crazy." In the past year the only test I had was a PAP, which my doctor doesn't do every year. She takes as much time with me as I want or need. And no, I'm not on one of the medi's.

Quote:
And as to the flying part. How comfy are you sitting in a seat that that is 16" wide?
Not a problem as long as some obese person isn't next to me trying to share half of my seat with me.

Quote:
Dollar for dollar it cost me less to fly now than it did 20 years ago (no adjustments for inflation). We had $99 trips then and we have $59 trips now. Explain it. The airlines just keep on packing us in. Look up the seats on older planes, they were wider and deeper. We had leg room. Now we are being fee'd to death to have these luxuries. We pay for a seat to have leg room (upwards of $40). We pay for wider (business class or buy 2nd seat). Fuel prices have come down from their $4ish high, but the fees associated with it are still in place. Now they are charging for the 1st piece of luggage. Just wait for them to charge for each carry-on, its coming. So stop blaming fat for all the woes in flying. If you want airlines to screen for fat, then they need to list on their webpages what their seats can realistically handle - but they dont. But they will list the seats that have extra legroom for a fee.
Actually, many DO list the size of their seats, you just need to look for it. I seldom check luggage, and my carryon never weighs over 17 pounds. (My suitcase fits "wheels in" and weighs about 3.5 pounds.) Frankly I could care less if they want to start charging people by weight--total body plus baggage/carry-on. I'd be paying next to nothing.

Bottom line, we shouldn't be rewarding people for obesity by giving them free or larger seats while requiring others to pick up the tab for it anymore than we should be rewarding people for smoking or binge drinking.
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Old 02-19-2010, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,353 posts, read 24,084,481 times
Reputation: 8864
Quote:
23 year old works in a warehouse on his feet all day. He comes home, has dinner, and then sits in front of the TV or computer
Thats sedentary. He doesnt go for a walk, he doesnt work off the meal. Right now his metabolism works 100%. And plus at 23 what is he doing in your house? He should be on his own by now. He needs to feel all the stress of being on his own.
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Old 02-19-2010, 11:04 AM
 
26,590 posts, read 54,571,346 times
Reputation: 13019
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilVA View Post
Thats sedentary. He doesnt go for a walk, he doesnt work off the meal. Right now his metabolism works 100%. And plus at 23 what is he doing in your house? He should be on his own by now. He needs to feel all the stress of being on his own.
Hello? Did you read? He works in a WAREHOUSE on his feet all day moving hundred pound boxes around. He's in better shape than you could dream of being from both a cardio and overall fitness standpoint. He ahs no need to go for a walk to work off his meal, he's been working it off all day.

Why he still lives at home is none of your business, but there are good reasons for it--one of which is that he's saving to buy his own place rather than throw money away on rent.
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Old 02-19-2010, 11:43 AM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,353 posts, read 24,084,481 times
Reputation: 8864
Quote:
He works in a WAREHOUSE
Under OSHA he does not lift heavy boxes. He may move boxes onto or off of pallets (and probably builds a sweat doing so). Been there done that. They have forklifts, hand trucks, etc

So what?? You're feeding him. You're paying his bills. He pays no rent. Lets see how he would do on his own. On his budget. He's saving for a .................... is just an excuse. And I don't want to hear its the economy BS. I know kids, no they are adults who are working three jobs and not living at home and they are his age. I see them at the gym at night. And I can see the little tummy bulge.

Mine are in their early 20's and are both Marines. They have both done multiple tours in Iraq and Afganistan. And they both live in their own homes off base. One is already married. But they both live primarily on their own budgets ( and we all throw them something when they hit bumps in the road). They can eat garbage and still maintain a six pack.

But back to the fat issue. We've created fat kids. Crappy diets. Crappy school food. The days of kids going out to play after school are gone. They come home turn the computer/TV and veg. When we were young, our parents didn't let us veg in front of the TV. We were told to go out and play. That was our exercise. In my day we walked to school (nearly a mile in NYC). Now they barely walk to the corner. Yes in this light you are right and we caused this part.

But many people in the 30's & 40's group are the microwave generation. They buy the little box and nuke away. The box says Healthy... or Zero grams of... and they are not. They are filled with crap they (corporations) dont want you do know about (and the gov't lets them do it).

Here's a book for you to read. Eat This Not That! Supermarket Survival Guide: The No-Diet Weight Loss Solution [Book].

Read it, then tell me whats in our food isn't killing us.

Last edited by Pruzhany; 02-19-2010 at 11:45 AM.. Reason: edit
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Old 02-19-2010, 12:16 PM
 
26,590 posts, read 54,571,346 times
Reputation: 13019
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilVA View Post
Under OSHA he does not lift heavy boxes. He may move boxes onto or off of pallets (and probably builds a sweat doing so). Been there done that. They have forklifts, hand trucks, etc
Actually OSHA doesn't have any set limit on the amount you can lift with or without assistance. Most of the boxes he lifts and carries are 50-75 pounds. Some are 100 poinds.

Quote:
So what?? You're feeding him. You're paying his bills. He pays no rent. Lets see how he would do on his own. On his budget. He's saving for a .................... is just an excuse. And I don't want to hear its the economy BS. I know kids, no they are adults who are working three jobs and not living at home and they are his age. I see them at the gym at night. And I can see the little tummy bulge.
When did I ever say any of that. He pays rent, quite often he meakes his own meals. He has his own car and insurance. Same thing with his otoher bills--medical, clothing, entertainment, etc. And just because other kids are too STUPID to stay at home and pay a lot less in rent in order to save to buy their own place and not ahve to deal with a landlord doesn't mean my kid is. Are you jealous because mommy and daddy tossed your ass out when you were 18? You would definitely be jealous of his six-pack--and he needs no expensive gym membership to maintain it.

Quote:
Mine are in their early 20's and are both Marines. They have both done multiple tours in Iraq and Afganistan. And they both live in their own homes off base. One is already married. But they both live primarily on their own budgets ( and we all throw them something when they hit bumps in the road). They can eat garbage and still maintain a six pack.
Guess what genious--mine try to enlist in the marines--it was his life goal all through school. He wasn't accepted due to medical reasons. So don't be so smug about it.

Quote:
But back to the fat issue. We've created fat kids. Crappy diets. Crappy school food. The days of kids going out to play after school are gone. They come home turn the computer/TV and veg. When we were young, our parents didn't let us veg in front of the TV. We were told to go out and play. That was our exercise. In my day we walked to school (nearly a mile in NYC). Now they barely walk to the corner. Yes in this light you are right and we caused this part.
Actually mine STILL goes "out to play." Last weekend he and a few of the teens in teh neighborhood were running around with airsoft guns for several hours until it got too dark. Yes, it sounds goofy at his age, but it's better than having him sitting watching TV or out at a bar drinking. Some of us have the common sense to have raised our kids to know how to do something other than watch TV or play video games.

Quote:
But many people in the 30's & 40's group are the microwave generation. They buy the little box and nuke away. The box says Healthy... or Zero grams of... and they are not. They are filled with crap they (corporations) dont want you do know about (and the gov't lets them do it).
I'm in my late 40's and my microwave is used to reheat leftovers and steam vegetables. Not all of us are idiots.

Quote:
Here's a book for you to read. Eat This Not That! Supermarket Survival Guide: The No-Diet Weight Loss Solution [Book].

Read it, then tell me whats in our food isn't killing us.
I'm not stupid and I fully understand that crap that processed foods have in them--which is why I don't buy them. I buy hormone free meat and milk, my produce is mostly grown by me or bought from a local farm stand, my eggs come from free range chickens in a yard up the street from my work. Some of us are WAY ahead of the curve on that one. You are the one who admits to eating fast food, not me.

But back to the topic at hand. Fat people need two buy two seats and shouldn't be rewarded for being fat. End of story.

Last edited by annerk; 02-19-2010 at 12:26 PM..
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Old 02-19-2010, 12:48 PM
 
4,805 posts, read 20,226,340 times
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I have no problem with airlines charging for extra weight.

So long as it is applied equally to ALL passengers. The policy should be publicized BEFORE every passenger buys a ticket, and weight should be taken before a passenger checks in, goes through security, and gets on the plane. It should not be left up to the whim of a flight attendant to decide which policies to enforce and when.

And the policy should apply to ALL weight, not just fat. A passenger who presents a danger to the safety of the flight because they weigh 300 lbs is no more a risk than a passenger who weighs 200 and brings two toddlers on board, ticket-free, that weigh 35lbs each and all the extra luggage that come with those children. Same for a passenger who brings an extra suitcase with them. Weight is weight.
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Old 02-19-2010, 04:14 PM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,353 posts, read 24,084,481 times
Reputation: 8864
Quote:
Healthy living is a way of life.
Agreed. But it rare in this country. Go overseas and its a way of life. Go into markets all over Europe and they are the opposite to this country. And I congratulate you on living off the land.
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Old 02-20-2010, 08:58 PM
 
11,924 posts, read 21,508,334 times
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Obese people actually cost the health care system less overall because they die before getting any long term illnesses.

Plus if my mom told the internet I had a six pack I'd be moving out ASAP...
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