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Old 12-15-2010, 02:53 PM
 
11,954 posts, read 21,551,652 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
As I recall, on that plane that crashed in upstate New York a couple years ago, the Pilots were only making about $20K a year, which was mentioned in the news story, relating to their competency.
The base pay for the FO first year was in the low low 20's, the CA was in the 60's I think. They were at a company with a particularly notorious reputation for bad treatment but "quick" upgrade (FO to CA) transition times allowing the "get in and get out" vs. as much as a 10 year upgrade at a commuter such as American Eagle.

Also, the pay doesn't really reflect on competency. Keep in mind the pilots at the major carriers nowadays made less back when they were working their way of the ladder, in fact I knew a guy who PAID a Delta affiliate carrier $10k just for the privilege to "earn" $12,000 his first year. That was the industry back then, at the small carriers. You did that for 1, 2, 3 years and soon afterward were at a major carrier. The major carrier pay scales were the carrot that kept commuter pay low. If you weren't military that is how you did it, and do it now. Unfortunately, a lot of the bigger carriers haven't hired appreciably in a decade, in fact the last time American Airlines hired an active pilot I was in high school. That limits the career mobility of those at the commuter level - in no way does it reflect upon their intelligence or pilot ability.
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Old 12-15-2010, 03:02 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slackjaw View Post
What do flight attendants make? I've never given it much thought, do they really make $7/hour? Salary.com shows top of salary bell curve between 47k and 64k, but not much use without information on hours/year. At 52k they'd have to work over 140 hours/week with no vacation to make $7/hour.

Most are union right do they have pensions?
Well it depends on the carrier. F/A's for a company like SWA make in that average. They are well paid. I'm not sure what the low end of their pay is but I do know some F/A's there who make in the $50's.

Pay really depends on luck and timing. If you are hired at the beginning of a boom you are senior, have better schedules, and make more money. F/A's at the bottom of major airline lists might have 10+ years of longevity but only be making in the $20's to low $30's due to being at the bottom of the totem poll being on reserve.

F/A's for the commuters make around $16-$18/hr to start but are generally only paid for 70-80 hours per month, even working "full time" on call 24/7 20 days a month. When called out they might only get paid for 3-4 hours a day. That equates to an earning potential of around $15,000/yr, or around what someone making $7/hr working full time would make. Top top pay at the commuter level is in the $30's, that is after several decades of service.

Pensions are all gone.
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Old 12-15-2010, 03:57 PM
 
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Thanks for the info wheelsup.

So is it much more competitive to join SWA? Like would someone who wants to be a FA based in Phoenix first try SWA before moving on to US Airways, Delta, etc. I mean hey they get to wear shorts too.
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Old 12-15-2010, 04:23 PM
 
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I have no idea how competitive it is to be an F/A at SWA but as far as pilot hiring goes, you basically win the lottery if called for an interview at SWA.
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Old 12-16-2010, 11:54 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
As I recall, on that plane that crashed in upstate New York a couple years ago, the Pilots were only making about $20K a year, which was mentioned in the news story, relating to their competency. I think it was the Colgan Air flight in Buffalo.
The key thing to remember is that the passengers THOUGHT they were on a plane operated by Continental Airlines.

As for making in the low $20s, well, the airline pretty much got what they paid for - an inexperienced pilot who could not handle the plane under difficult circumstances.

From the NTSB report:

The NTSB Probable Cause finding:
The National Transportation Safety Board determines that the probable cause of this accident was the captain’s inappropriate response to the activation of the stick shaker, which led to an aerodynamic stall from which the airplane did not recover. Contributing to the accident were (1) the flight crew’s failure to monitor airspeed in relation to the rising position of the lowspeed cue, (2) the flight crew’s failure to adhere to sterile cockpit procedures, (3) the captain’s failure to effectively manage the flight, and (4) Colgan Air’s inadequate procedures for airspeed selection and management during approaches in icing conditions
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Old 12-16-2010, 05:18 PM
 
11,954 posts, read 21,551,652 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlawrence01 View Post
The key thing to remember is that the passengers THOUGHT they were on a plane operated by Continental Airlines.

As for making in the low $20s, well, the airline pretty much got what they paid for

To be fair, so did the passengers...

"EWR to BUF, sort by lowest price"

Just sayin'
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Old 12-16-2010, 10:44 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
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All said we (USA) enjoy a very safe air industry sector. I applaud the many Crew members who daily put up with the guff from passengers, regulators, and bosses to provide Amazingly safe and Professional travel in spite of the many obstacles they face.

There were lots of errors leading to the crash mentioned, and certainly marginal and difficult circumstances to 'save the flight' considering the odds they faced. The ruling appropriately indicates that there is enough blame to go around, but the fatal combination of crew making poor decisions and taking a less than desired action in a risky situation (that included inadequate procedures) was most probable blame. Too bad for all involved, including the industry.

As mentioned we (USA) enjoy a wonderful quality of air safety. (as you well respect when living and flying elsewhere.)

The wages are generally pathetic for FA and often for Commanding crew. Baggage Handlers probably are better compensated, and they don't have to deal with the public, nor dress up and travel and ALWAYS be expected to be pleasant.

A fellow passenger was complaining about asking for better service and being given a 'short answer' by a flight attendant on my last flight (there had been some disturbance in the rear by an irate passenger, and so tension was high). It was the first flight in my many hundreds that an air marshall had to take the guy down. The when we landed, the FBI came on and removed the guy. No one complained about having to wait for them to do that.

Can you imagine being subjected all to the jerks on your last flight, several times / day !!

I suggest sending a pleasant comment to your airline designating your flight crews who are exceptional. Also thank them verbally and by picking up your trash

BTW: I LOVE the new 'Plane - Crackers' on SWA. Very tasty, very creative
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Old 12-17-2010, 04:46 PM
 
14,264 posts, read 24,009,233 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelsup View Post
To be fair, so did the passengers...

"EWR to BUF, sort by lowest price"

Just sayin'
The real problem is truth in advertising. If it was disclosed that the commuter airlines were operating a SIGNIFICANT number of the flights of the legacy airlines AND that the pilots have LESS experience and LESS training than the pilots on the major airlines, people would have the opportunity to make an informed choice.

And I wonder if the folks on that flight really flew for the lowest fare. Probably not.
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Old 12-18-2010, 01:52 PM
 
Location: International Spacestation
5,207 posts, read 6,203,266 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John1960 View Post
"Apparently, they got into a fist fight on the plane and the pilot decided to kick everybody off the plane. They told us we had to get off the plane because stewardesses were fighting."

Breitbart.tv » Flight Attendants Fist Fight on Atlanta-Bound Flight
Do these women live in Atlanta? Very interesting.
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Old 12-18-2010, 01:55 PM
 
Location: International Spacestation
5,207 posts, read 6,203,266 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelsup View Post
What do you expect when you pay 'em $7/hr...
Could you explain this in further detail for me. What do you mean?
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