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Old 04-06-2015, 04:40 PM
 
Location: Lynnwood, Wa
13 posts, read 20,647 times
Reputation: 51

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PacificFlights View Post
How is that a rip off?
You bought a ticket from point A to point B.
The fare is based on that ticket.
You Don't live up to the terms of your ticket and made a new route.
Why can't the airlines charge you for what you did instead of what you told them you would do?

You rent a car for a week at a weekly rate, but use it for only 3 days, are you saying the rental company should charge you only for the 3 days under the weekly rate and not the normal daily rate?

When you buy the ticket, the price is based on what you said you WILL do, not what you want to do. If you dont want to do what the ticket said, buy a ticket for the way you want to do it. But don't say its a rip off because you are the one backing out of the deal!
I know this forum is 5 years old, but I'm gonna respond to this bull**** comment in case someone else stumbles upon it like I did.

First off, your analogy about the rental car sucks. It would be more relevant if, you offer me a discount for a 5-day rental, then void the discount because I returned it after 3. The deal we made was for a 5-day rental. I'm paying for that 5-day rental according to our terms, I just don't want the car for the extra 2 days. In the case of 2-stop air travel, you're offering me a price for 2 tickets. I'm paying that price, I'm just only using one of the flights. It's not like I'm asking for a refund for the flight I didn't take... I'm just not taking it. If I book a flight from DC to San Francisco with a layover in Charlotte, then just meet my connecting flight in Charlotte, I'm still paying the agreed-upon price of both tickets, I'm just only using one. The only reason it would bother you (seeing as how you would actually save money by not having to carry me from DC to Charlotte) is if you're running a scheme and you're upset because I was wise enough to take advantage. If I'm trying to get from Charlotte to San Francisco, what's the difference between booking a flight from Charlotte with a layover in Chicago than if I book it from DC with a layover in Charlotte, and just catching the connecting flight in Charlotte? In both instances, I'm buying TWO tickets at the agreed upon price for TWO tickets. If I miss the first flight, are you gonna refund the rest of the itinerary? NO!

Real world example: I want to fly from Seattle to Tokyo. All direct flights are WAY expensive, and all the layover flights contain ridiculous 20 hour layovers. Now, there is a decent deal on a flight out of Vancouver, which stops in Seattle. Now, think about that... I live in Seattle. SeaTac is 10 minutes from my house. I can pay $1,500 for a direct flight from Seattle to Tokyo, or I could pay $900 to drive 3 hours up to Vancouver, cross the stupid border, get on a plane that's gonna take me RIGHT BACK TO SEATTLE to catch the flight that otherwise would have cost me $1,500. That makes no sense. I know it doesn't cost $600 LESS to make me take an extra flight out of Vancouver. But, if that's the cost of the itinerary in question, then fine! Book the stupid flight from Vancouver to SeaTac, and I'll just meet the connecting flight! But, because YOU wanna run your little scam, you're gonna force me drive all the way the hell up to Vancouver and waste all that time and effort just so you don't feel taken advantage of. That's bull crap. Stop screwing with us. Just sell us the damn ticket for whatever it cost. If you sell me the flight from Seattle to Tokyo, even at a $500 mark-up, I could save money on that flight and you would still have the flight from Vancouver to Seattle that you could sell to someone else. It's a freaking scam! I don't buy this garbage about airlines making pennies on the dollar for one damn second. Who the hell is flying from Vancouver to Seattle? You're making those flights up so you can have reason to justify inflating the cost of direct tickets.

Last edited by Quezocotl; 04-06-2015 at 04:57 PM..
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Old 04-06-2015, 05:37 PM
 
3,565 posts, read 1,875,735 times
Reputation: 2263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quezocotl View Post
I know this forum is 5 years old, but I'm gonna respond to this bull**** comment in case someone else stumbles upon it like I did.

First off, your analogy about the rental car sucks. It would be more relevant if, you offer me a discount for a 5-day rental, then void the discount because I returned it after 3. The deal we made was for a 5-day rental. I'm paying for that 5-day rental according to our terms, I just don't want the car for the extra 2 days. In the case of 2-stop air travel, you're offering me a price for 2 tickets. I'm paying that price, I'm just only using one of the flights. It's not like I'm asking for a refund for the flight I didn't take... I'm just not taking it. If I book a flight from DC to San Francisco with a layover in Charlotte, then just meet my connecting flight in Charlotte, I'm still paying the agreed-upon price of both tickets, I'm just only using one. The only reason it would bother you (seeing as how you would actually save money by not having to carry me from DC to Charlotte) is if you're running a scheme and you're upset because I was wise enough to take advantage. If I'm trying to get from Charlotte to San Francisco, what's the difference between booking a flight from Charlotte with a layover in Chicago than if I book it from DC with a layover in Charlotte, and just catching the connecting flight in Charlotte? In both instances, I'm buying TWO tickets at the agreed upon price for TWO tickets. If I miss the first flight, are you gonna refund the rest of the itinerary? NO!

Real world example: I want to fly from Seattle to Tokyo. All direct flights are WAY expensive, and all the layover flights contain ridiculous 20 hour layovers. Now, there is a decent deal on a flight out of Vancouver, which stops in Seattle. Now, think about that... I live in Seattle. SeaTac is 10 minutes from my house. I can pay $1,500 for a direct flight from Seattle to Tokyo, or I could pay $900 to drive 3 hours up to Vancouver, cross the stupid border, get on a plane that's gonna take me RIGHT BACK TO SEATTLE to catch the flight that otherwise would have cost me $1,500. That makes no sense. I know it doesn't cost $600 LESS to make me take an extra flight out of Vancouver. But, if that's the cost of the itinerary in question, then fine! Book the stupid flight from Vancouver to SeaTac, and I'll just meet the connecting flight! But, because YOU wanna run your little scam, you're gonna force me drive all the way the hell up to Vancouver and waste all that time and effort just so you don't feel taken advantage of. That's bull crap. Stop screwing with us. Just sell us the damn ticket for whatever it cost. If you sell me the flight from Seattle to Tokyo, even at a $500 mark-up, I could save money on that flight and you would still have the flight from Vancouver to Seattle that you could sell to someone else. It's a freaking scam! I don't buy this garbage about airlines making pennies on the dollar for one damn second. Who the hell is flying from Vancouver to Seattle? You're making those flights up so you can have reason to justify inflating the cost of direct tickets.
The reality is that airlines have sophisticated pricing systems and sophisticated systems to allocate resources (planes, crews, fuel, airport berths, etc.) to meet their operational needs. Take your DC -> Charlotte -> SF example: let's say 370 people book the "discounted" trip with a Charlotte stop, but all of them actually live in Charlotte. A plane flies almost empty from DC to Charlotte, then another flies full from Charlotte to SF. The first leg of the flight becomes a huge waste because nobody was on the flight--fuel, a crew, a plane, and space at two airports were used for the flight. If everyone simply booked what they wanted to use, Charlotte -> SF, the first flight would have been cancelled.

Airline deregulation, the policy of Presidents Carter and Reagan, led to market pricing for airline routes. It can be difficult for customers to associate price with the market--supply v. demand--instead of based on cost to serve. But that is what we have. So do you place a $600 value on the ability to fly out of your home airport rather than driving 3 hours each way to/from Vancouver? If so, book the direct ticket, and if not, take the time to drive to Vancouver. Airlines are not operating in order to simply cover costs, but to provide shareholder return. That means maximizing their revenues and minimizing their operational costs.

Market pricing can mean that relatively rich cities have higher fares than relatively poor cities, even if the rich city has a more direct route to a particular destination. It's really the same phenomenon you see with holidays being particularly expensive days for flights while certain non-holiday weekdays, for example, offer a lot of cheap fares.
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Old 04-06-2015, 08:33 PM
 
Location: Silver Spring, MD
1,300 posts, read 1,096,069 times
Reputation: 1515
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quezocotl View Post
I know this forum is 5 years old, but I'm gonna respond to this bull**** comment in case someone else stumbles upon it like I did.

First off, your analogy about the rental car sucks. It would be more relevant if, you offer me a discount for a 5-day rental, then void the discount because I returned it after 3. The deal we made was for a 5-day rental. I'm paying for that 5-day rental according to our terms, I just don't want the car for the extra 2 days. In the case of 2-stop air travel, you're offering me a price for 2 tickets. I'm paying that price, I'm just only using one of the flights. It's not like I'm asking for a refund for the flight I didn't take... I'm just not taking it. If I book a flight from DC to San Francisco with a layover in Charlotte, then just meet my connecting flight in Charlotte, I'm still paying the agreed-upon price of both tickets, I'm just only using one. The only reason it would bother you (seeing as how you would actually save money by not having to carry me from DC to Charlotte) is if you're running a scheme and you're upset because I was wise enough to take advantage. If I'm trying to get from Charlotte to San Francisco, what's the difference between booking a flight from Charlotte with a layover in Chicago than if I book it from DC with a layover in Charlotte, and just catching the connecting flight in Charlotte? In both instances, I'm buying TWO tickets at the agreed upon price for TWO tickets. If I miss the first flight, are you gonna refund the rest of the itinerary? NO!

Real world example: I want to fly from Seattle to Tokyo. All direct flights are WAY expensive, and all the layover flights contain ridiculous 20 hour layovers. Now, there is a decent deal on a flight out of Vancouver, which stops in Seattle. Now, think about that... I live in Seattle. SeaTac is 10 minutes from my house. I can pay $1,500 for a direct flight from Seattle to Tokyo, or I could pay $900 to drive 3 hours up to Vancouver, cross the stupid border, get on a plane that's gonna take me RIGHT BACK TO SEATTLE to catch the flight that otherwise would have cost me $1,500. That makes no sense. I know it doesn't cost $600 LESS to make me take an extra flight out of Vancouver. But, if that's the cost of the itinerary in question, then fine! Book the stupid flight from Vancouver to SeaTac, and I'll just meet the connecting flight! But, because YOU wanna run your little scam, you're gonna force me drive all the way the hell up to Vancouver and waste all that time and effort just so you don't feel taken advantage of. That's bull crap. Stop screwing with us. Just sell us the damn ticket for whatever it cost. If you sell me the flight from Seattle to Tokyo, even at a $500 mark-up, I could save money on that flight and you would still have the flight from Vancouver to Seattle that you could sell to someone else. It's a freaking scam! I don't buy this garbage about airlines making pennies on the dollar for one damn second. Who the hell is flying from Vancouver to Seattle? You're making those flights up so you can have reason to justify inflating the cost of direct tickets.
I think there is a difference between taking advantage a cheaper itinerary where the destination that you really want is a layover stop on your itinerary. Using your example, if a flight from DC to SFO with a layover in Charlotte is cheaper than a ticket from DC to Charlotte, then by all means, book the flight to SFO and get off in Charlotte. However I agree that airlines do not have honor your reservation if you want to start in the middle of the itinerary because it is more convenient for you to start off in the middle. When departing from Vancouver, the airline expects 300 passengers to Tokyo. If you don't show up, they can decide to put another passenger on in your place, and you would be wrong to expected them to boot that person off so you can have your seat back. It would be one thing in you were complaining about the route but if the price difference was $100 would you still consider driving to Vancouver to save money?
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Old 04-07-2015, 04:04 PM
 
Location: Lynnwood, Wa
13 posts, read 20,647 times
Reputation: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
Airline deregulation, the policy of Presidents Carter and Reagan, led to market pricing for airline routes.
Yeah, and crap like this is the reason that, when the hammer of government comes down and imposes regulations, people rarely sympathize with the corporations... because they can't freaking control themselves. Yet, at the same time, they're telling me that the average profit on an airplane ticket is a few dollars. Come on... if you're charging $900 to run from YVR > SEA > NRT, and $1,500 to run from SEA > NRT, even if the flight from Vancouver is FREE, you're charging me a $600 mark-up for the "privilege" of directly taking me to my destination. $600... on ONE ticket. You're basically making me earn the discount by having me completely waste my time on a rat race driving all the way up to Canada, going through the border, getting on a plane and flying RIGHT back to where I started.

I think people simply don't realize it. If a flight from DCA > NRT is $1,500 let's say, and a connecting flight through ORD (Chicago) is $1,300. Okay, well if the flight from DCA > ORD is $400, and the flight from ORD > NRT is $900, then it makes sense to do the layover and save the $200. People typically book flights from point A to point B, and if they can save a few bucks by stopping over in point C, they'll do it. But in my case, I'm driving 3 hours from point A to point C, just to take a flight BACK down to point A, where I'll catch another flight to point B.

I get why they do it, and whether or not they're justified is subjective. Personally, I think it's stupid... and dude-man's dumb-ass analogy about how "You wanna pay me for what you actually do instead of what you agreed to do" is bull crap. I AM paying you for what I agreed to do. You're just not gonna honor it out of spite because I found a hole in your broken system!

I'm gonna book the YVR > SEA > NRT itinerary, and on her way back she can just miss the connecting flight back to YVR. What are they gonna do... go back in time and stop her from going? Jack-asses...
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Old 04-07-2015, 04:17 PM
 
Location: Lynnwood, Wa
13 posts, read 20,647 times
Reputation: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by shellymdnv View Post
I think there is a difference between taking advantage a cheaper itinerary where the destination that you really want is a layover stop on your itinerary. Using your example, if a flight from DC to SFO with a layover in Charlotte is cheaper than a ticket from DC to Charlotte, then by all means, book the flight to SFO and get off in Charlotte. However I agree that airlines do not have honor your reservation if you want to start in the middle of the itinerary because it is more convenient for you to start off in the middle. When departing from Vancouver, the airline expects 300 passengers to Tokyo. If you don't show up, they can decide to put another passenger on in your place, and you would be wrong to expected them to boot that person off so you can have your seat back. It would be one thing in you were complaining about the route but if the price difference was $100 would you still consider driving to Vancouver to save money?
It isn't $100, it's $600. Six hundred freaking dollars... that I have to earn by playing their little game by driving 3 damn hours to YVR and dealing with the border guards. Let's say I book a flight from YVR > SEA > NRT and meet the connecting flight at SEA. I call the airline and say "I missed the flight at YVR, but I'm on the way to SEA," so they hold the seat. What's the difference between doing that, and if, on the returning flight, I just get off in SEA and say "screw the last leg to YVR... I'm already here?" What's the cost difference? Zero! Sorry, I just don't sympathize. We hear airlines cut this and cut that, all the while they *****, moan and complain about how they actually pocket pennies on the dollar, and when I see crap like this, I don't buy it. I just don't. Sell me a freaking ticket from point A to point B at whatever it costs.

Another thing is... if they're expecting those who board in YVR to fly through to NRT, then why the hell are they stopping in SEA in the first place? You've got some ******* at the airport to catch a flight that can't accommodate him. So, let's say I'm not at YVR to catch the first leg, and dude just needs a jump from YVR to SEA. Great! Put that dude in my seat! Why are you gonna replace me with another dude who is flying through to NRT? Kick that dude off, then if I'm not there to meet the connecting flight, fill THAT seat with a dude trying to fly from SEA to YVR!

Who the hell is flying from YVR to SEA anyways? The only reason that flight exists is to make us go through a huge pain in the ass to punish us for not overpaying for a direct flight. It's bull crap!
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Old 04-07-2015, 06:10 PM
 
3,565 posts, read 1,875,735 times
Reputation: 2263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quezocotl View Post
It isn't $100, it's $600. Six hundred freaking dollars... that I have to earn by playing their little game by driving 3 damn hours to YVR and dealing with the border guards. Let's say I book a flight from YVR > SEA > NRT and meet the connecting flight at SEA. I call the airline and say "I missed the flight at YVR, but I'm on the way to SEA," so they hold the seat. What's the difference between doing that, and if, on the returning flight, I just get off in SEA and say "screw the last leg to YVR... I'm already here?" What's the cost difference? Zero! Sorry, I just don't sympathize. We hear airlines cut this and cut that, all the while they *****, moan and complain about how they actually pocket pennies on the dollar, and when I see crap like this, I don't buy it. I just don't. Sell me a freaking ticket from point A to point B at whatever it costs.

Another thing is... if they're expecting those who board in YVR to fly through to NRT, then why the hell are they stopping in SEA in the first place? You've got some ******* at the airport to catch a flight that can't accommodate him. So, let's say I'm not at YVR to catch the first leg, and dude just needs a jump from YVR to SEA. Great! Put that dude in my seat! Why are you gonna replace me with another dude who is flying through to NRT? Kick that dude off, then if I'm not there to meet the connecting flight, fill THAT seat with a dude trying to fly from SEA to YVR!

Who the hell is flying from YVR to SEA anyways? The only reason that flight exists is to make us go through a huge pain in the ass to punish us for not overpaying for a direct flight. It's bull crap!
I'm willing to bet there are people who would fly from Vancouver to Seattle to avoid the 3 hour drive + time at the border + traffic problems, etc. If you are willing to make the drive to save a few hundred dollars, then go for it. But trying to game the system by buying a ticket you don't intend to use is the sort of selfish behavior that forces the creation of rules that hurt everybody else.

Plus, if you skip the Vancouver to Seattle leg, then the airline will assume your ticket is not flying and potentially pull someone onto the Seattle -> NRT flight from the standby list.

Airlines are not in business to sell you tickets at cost. They are in business to earn a profit for shareholders. Just like your computer costs a lot less to manufacture than the $899 list price, the cost of operating a seat on an airline is (usually) much less than the $749 you paid for it.

There is probably a legitimate question about whether airline consolidation is limiting competition for domestic fares. But that has nothing to do with the example you provided--or with the practice you are deriding.
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Old 04-07-2015, 08:00 PM
 
2,291 posts, read 3,934,687 times
Reputation: 2055
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quezocotl View Post
Who the hell is flying from YVR to SEA anyways? The only reason that flight exists is to make us go through a huge pain in the ass to punish us for not overpaying for a direct flight. It's bull crap!
Alaska, Air Canada and Delta all have multiple daily YVR-SEA flights, those don't just exist so that you can throw a tantrum on an internet message board.

In your hypothetical example, YVR-SEA-NRT is cheaper than SEA-NRT because on that day, the cheapest YVR-NRT fare with availability is less expensive than the cheapest SEA-NRT fare with availability, an YVR-SEA-NRT happens to be an allowed routing for that fare. On other days SEA-YVR-NRT may turn out to be cheaper, and it's not because airlines want Canadians to drive down to Seattle and fly back home before going to Tokyo.
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