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"Starting to get cold out finally!"
(set 14 days ago)
38 posts, read 64,182 times
I read somewhere that they recently received something like $50 million from the Department of Energy and are looking to hire something like 300 more employees by the end of 2009... If I read it right, that's a pretty big ramp-up!
To all those who are interested in Stirling Engines to produce electicity:
There is a company in Sweden who apparently has beat Infinia to market. The name of the company is Cleanergy. Key that name into your browser and you will visit their website. Questions some of you have about the Infinia corporation and their Stirling engine have been addressed and solved by Cleanergy. Cleanergy even provides manufacturing projections on how quickly they are building plants to produce their engines (5 KW and 9 KW).
I too contacted Infinia (about a year ago) and received no reply. I think Infinia must be privately held. If it was a public corporation and I had a position in it, I would demand that the CEO be replaced with someone with a lot more drive and marketing ability. The CEO is probably a smart engineer but one with insufficient executive business sense. Whatever, the Swedes have overtaken Infinia.
So, once again, America's inertia (partially caused by the large investment from big business in maintaining the status quo) has caused it to fall further behind the rest of the world. (Think South Korea, India, China.) There are even middle eastern petroleum pumping countries who see the handwriting on the wall. They are preparing for their carbonless future by investing the dollars we pay for their petroleum for new energy technologies within their own borders. They want to survive the coming conversion away from petroleum to carbonless power.
Cleanergy in Sweden and companies in Spain and Germany are beyond the reach of American vested power interests. They have forged ahead in the worldwide race to produce carbonless power.
Cleanergy's Stirling engines run off concentrated solar energy. One could use them to produce electricity during the day and to produce hydrogen to be used in reversible fuel cells for night time power. This method will eventually become the world's source of clean energy as Cleanergy AB will now provide. More efficient direct solar conversion by solar cells (Spain and Germany) will do the same (day and night power).
Zero carbon emisson, engine simplicity, sunlight available worldwide are going to power the world.
No, I do not own any stock and have no position in Cleanergy; nor do I know anyone in it. I'm just an ordinary American homeowner who would like to disconnect from the local power grid as soon as possible.
So any idea what is going on??? why aren't they in the marketplace?As Victor syas: I'm just an ordinary American homeowner who would like to disconnect from the local power grid as soon as possible. It can't happen fast enough.
I checked a few days ago and Infinia has updated their website with a slick new presentation. It does make you want to have one of these in your backyard that's for sure.
But... there is still no apparent desire on their part to begin selling their solar/Stirlingengine/linear generator product to Harry Homeowner. Not is there any mention of prices or even a convenient way to inquire to them about prices. They clearly are not aiming their product toward the guy with a backyard who wants to make his own electricity. Maybe I missed something.
I'd guess that Infinia's product is expensive compared to buying electricity from the local power company. Only Infinia knows how much of the selling price is profit. Harry Homeowner could be convinced to buy his own power producing package if he was shown how much time would be required to recover his investment compared to continuing to buy from the power grid.
If Infinia was smart, they would offer their device just slightly above their production cost. This would sell a lot of product. Once the public caught onto the idea of making their own power, Infinia could enhance/upgrade the product and sell it hand over fist.
Current Infinia marketing may be slanted toward only large commercial power producers who can afford the big capital outlay. Without having to continually buy coal or petroleum, using solar power costs nothing beyond the initial expense of purchasing Infinia's product. And there will be the added future cost savings of emitting no carbon into the atmosphere. Carbon-use penalties will be forced upon world wide industry in the near future (about to happen in some countries as we speak).
But as you would expect, Infinia's CEO is managing his show. In my opinion, he is missing an opportunity to become the Wal-Mart of homeowner electricity production.
Even if Infinia were to design, produce, and market a 1 or 2 kilowatt machine (instead of the 5 or 9 offered by Cleanergy), homeowners would jump at the chance to reduce their current utility costs. Those homeowners would be prime candidates to move up the product line to higher power.
In the meanwhile Cleanergy of Sweden will be selling to homeowners in Europe. Other European and Asian companies will jump on the bandwagon after Cleanergy. This will have the effect of further diluting any market share Infinia might have had. Eventually the idea will drift across the oceans but Infinia will have been left behind.
American big business with its vested interest in the status quo stifles innovation --in America. Good ideas have a way of their own of self propagating and this will force American big business to accept the innovation, like it or not.
BTW. Have you tried to buy a Stirling engine recently? There are plenty of model engines out there, but nothing even close to one or more horsepower,or even a measily kilowatt.
I contacted (by telephone) StirlingPower about the lack of a Stirling engine of sufficient size to allow me to prototype producing my own electricity and was told that they were completely unable to get financing from anyone with which to build a factory to produce Stirling engines of any reasonable size. (Based on a 40 year old design, they produced and sold (for a while) 5 horsepower Stirling engines in India. I was told that a subsidiary company in Japan could begin producing and marketing that same design 'in the future'.)
You don't suppose big business has united itself to oppose the production of large Stirling engines by denying financing to anyone who would mass produce them do you?
How much influence do you suppose the conglomeration of power producting companies can exert on the banking/political system to keep us 'down on the farm' and remain without our own options to making our own electrical power?
The time has come for the world to stop producing power from carbon based resources. But, as usual, big business and big politics are getting their ducks lined up so that they will come out winners. Once the ducks are lined up, Harry Homeowner will continue to be held captive in a position without alternatives to produce his own power. Life goes on...
I'm just guessing Victor, but you have never worked in the utility industry, have you?
At least in this part of the state, if you are reasonably careful you can have all the modern conveniences for an electric bill of about $75. This with mass-produced appliances that can be bought off the shelf at discount stores, or for real economy bought used.
Generating your own power frequently means using 12V DC, or 120 V DC, and/or inverters. And work.
There is a home up around Ellensburg with a full-monty solar cell and windmill battery and inverter setup, this "power plant" cost around $80K, it does not need much maintenance, but the windmill and the batteries at least are unlikely to last anything like 50 years before needing replacement.
A Stirling engine works best where you have a source of heat that you need anyway like a space heating furnace. And then it works only when you are using the heat.
By all means read up and if you want to make your own power, go for it, but realize this is damn near like trying to build your own car from a kit - it won't be very cost-effective use of your time.
I dont get it!!!!
J.D. Sitton, Infinia CEO, says that Infinia already has $2 billion worth of orders for its solar power generation product in hand, which it expects to start rolling out commercially before the end of September 2010, and each unit generates 3 kilowatts, and costs about $15,000, Sitton says
google this - http://www.xconomy.com/seattle/2009/...-the-sun/]Will Solar Ever Live Up to the Hype? Paul Allen, Vinod Khosla Bet On Infinia’s Sun Engines | Xconomy
So why is he waiting for another one year?!?!?
May be the product is not functioning to spec?
Or is it too expensive to manufacture?
I was wondering: since you live in eastern Washington state, where Infinia is located, if there is any connection or dialog between you and them?
I want to reiterate my three points.
1. Infinia seems less than enthusiastic to sell their product to home owners. Cleanergy is gearing up to mass produce their machine, but it takes time to build factories, so they are limiting their sales for now, to their own countrymen (Sweden). Europe is next, where there is not a concerted to keep the population tied to the commercial power mains.
2. Someone or something (like a corporation) is making it difficult for backyard tinkerers to devise, invent, discover… a way of using 200 year old technology (Stirling engine) with a recent invention (linear generator) to produce homegrown electrical power and disconnect from the commercial grid.
3. It is in the interest of big business to prevent individual home owners from removing themselves from the commercial power grid so that big business may continue to be the dominant supplier of power and on their own terms. (Get their ducks lines up.)
I agree with you that if one is frugal and shops the ‘used’ market, one can buy modern conveniences for less than otherwise. I personally don’t know of anyone whose electric bill is $75.00 a month although I am sure there are some. My neighbors and I economize as much as anyone and the bill is always over $100., closer to $200. in the Florida summer (where air condx is a necessity).
Before sunlight/parabolic reflector/Stirling engine/linear generator technology (Infinia’s and Cleanergy’s products), tinkerers did have to generate direct current at some voltage and it did need to be inverted into 120 volt ac. But not any longer with Infinia’s and Cleanergy’s new products. And, they are relatively maintenance free, so your comment “And work.” is no longer true.
The Ellenburg full-monty setup you mention is obsolete -- especially with a price tag of $80K. I have heard that Infinia’s price for a 3 KW system is $15K. With mass production that cost figure would plummet.
You asked if I have ever worked in the utility industry. Answer is no. But, I have done cost analyses on utility companies and comparative studies on energy alternatives. I feel safe in saying that with a 50% reduction in Infinia’s product ($7500.), developed to twice its current output power (from 3 to 6 KW) and in a mass production effort as opposed to a $200. per month cost for power grid electric consumption, it would take about 3 years and 2 months for the Infinia’s product to pay for itself. The cost of sunlight will never go up whereas it is anyone’s guess what will happen to carbon fuel prices.
Your comment about the heat source for a Stirling engine. No, no, no, a thousand times no on using your home space heating source. That is almost certainly burning carbon in one form or another. Direct solar concentration onto a Stirling engine is very efficient and the technology has been developed, fine tuned and is ready for us all to use -- witness Infinia and Cleanergy.
You are absolutely right about the sunlight/parabolic reflector/Stirling engine/linear generator technology only working during daylight and with sunlight. That is why Cleanergy developed their product to produce gaseous hydrogen. During the day, unused capacity produces hydrogen which is stored and used during darkness in a hydrogen fuel cell which directly produces electricity for the home (and to power a hydrogen fuel cell car). Hydrogen fuel cells are relatively simple, last a long time and have been perfected and are in use in space satellites where sunlight is plentiful. Honda’s hydrogen fuel cell car (Clarity ) and Fisker Automotive’s (Karma) are already on the road. They are expensive but costs will come way down with mass production.
Yes, I know; there are not a lot of filling stations selling hydrogen. Neither were there a lot of filling stations selling gasoline until the internal combustion engine was mass produced.
As far as producing my own power goes, I am only involved in that because of the lack of commercially available products that would accomplish that for me, such as Infinia’s and Cleanergy’s.
I have heard that Infinia has a project going on in Spain, installing 1MWe.
The rumors say that they have tremendous technical difficulties causing them shipping systems back and forth to the States.
Does anyone know something about this project? If it's true, then we may start see additional installations all over.
I see the curiosity about Infinia is great. I work for them here in Kennewick. Figured I'd set a few things straight on the forum.
First of all, Infinia is in a league of its own if you compare to Cleanergy. Infinia uses a free piston system. Cleanergy is a kinematic system. I won't go into the details, but just know that there is only 1 part that can wear down on the ISS. Whereas the kinematic system is complex with many moving parts. If you have any doubts, go listen to a Clenergy system. It sounds like a bunch of kitchen pans being banged together. Then come listen to the ISS. We have 6 out back and we don't bite. You will realize the difference then.
Don't plan on Infinia hiring anyone close to home. Due to financial issues brought on by the Spanish Royalty, the new building that housed an assembly line will most likely be abandoned. The line itself is moving to Salt Lake City. No manufacturing in Kennewick. Sorry.
There is a large project in Spain. Renovailia to be exact. This project is Infinia's pilot site. Here is where all the real world testing is taking place. Everything from transportation to burning ants. Other project sites are Las Vergines and Sandia. So there are issues as expected. That is why we test before we sell the ISS to the public. Just about there though. Also check out the systems at the city hall of Belen
"So why is he waiting for another one year?!?!? May be the product is not functioning to spec? Or is it too expensive to manufacture?"
Yes and Yes. Both issues are correct. Currently the system is 2x what Sitton says and produces only 80% of the energy it is supposed to. But that is just the pilot system. Under development as we speak is the final generation. This product will do what it is supposed to (hopefully).
Don't plan on buying your own ISS for your backyard. Unfortunately the market is not there for the individual. On the other hand, the power companies are buying this stuff left and right.
If any of you would like information on who we are, you can go to the web site note here and learn more about our company and solar product. We are very real and working with developers on projects around the world.
If you are a developer and would like to work with us on project, please feel free to contact me at your convenience.
Director of NA Sales
Originally Posted by JerryChin
hello everybody. I read about this company named infinia corp and their ISS (infinia solar system) off their website - [URL="http://www.infiniacorp.com"]www.infiniacorp.com[/URL]
well, I am just curious if this ISS device truly exists???
more importantly, do any of you who live in kennewick know about the company and the ISS device?
something like this ISS device could have a huge effect on the world. yet nobody seems to know about it. and the company seems not to want to advertise it's ISS device very much to let the world know it exists. WHY?
personally, I have tried to get more information from them by filling in their online info request form. but I have yet to receive a reply.
so, to all you good citizens of kennewick, I ask you... is this infinia corp just a big scam, or is it legit?
any and all replies will be appreciated. thank you.
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