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Maybe not. Some police feel SHE did it and HE helped cover it up.
That's what I think...Patsy lost it when Jon Benet wet the bed...I think she yanked her out of bed and the child hit her head or something causing her death and John garroted the little girl and helped stage the scene...I believe what the experts thought but couldn't say with 100% certainty that Patsy wrote the "ransom note"...sad sad case
That's what I think...Patsy lost it when Jon Benet wet the bed...I think she yanked her out of bed and the child hit her head or something causing her death and John garroted the little girl and helped stage the scene...I believe what the experts thought but couldn't say with 100% certainty that Patsy wrote the "ransom note"...sad sad case
I also believe this is the most likely scenario.
Patsy was exhausted.....Jon Benet wet the bed.....Patsy took her to the bathroom to clean her up.....lost her temper.....pushed or slapped Jon Benet......and she hit her head on the toilet or the tub.
OMG, that face!! It was pure anger, oh the indignation of being charged bothered her more than the sexual assault, murder of her young girl. Has anyone looked at the faces of parents whose children are murdered? They have the most upset, depressed, devastated look on their faces. We all see it!! It's obvious to anyone what they are feeling. Now, flash forward to Patsy's Puss. It doesn't portray any suffering, only indignation, anger, uhm, a refusal to "budge." Almost more a power play w/ the media, law enforcement than wanting to find who murdered her child!!
Yes! She was annoyed! How DARE anyone question PR? The bad terrorists killed JonBenet! Didn't the stupid cops read it in the RANSOM NOTE? (the "War and Peace" of ransom note, penned by Patsy.)
That was PR's demeanor. I agree. I saw fake crying and outward displays of religiosity before she was charged.
After? The "Patsy Puss". (love that term!)
Yes. I've looked at the devastated faces of the parents of murdered children. Nothing like Patsy's.
Also, the angry faces of sociopaths who have been caught.
Yes, Patsy pouts and places a puss on her pudgy, pasty, Patsy Paugh face, and juts her flesh draped jaw forward, just for good measure.
They were involved in a kinky sex ring. I just know it.
And, one of their good friend was writing a play about Sylvia Likens. Another innocent who was slain in a basement about thirty years before.
The "ransom" note with the amount stated has always bothered me, I live in Colorado and we heard so
much about the case, yet nothing was ever resolved, the killer never caught...sad end for a little girl.
They were involved in a kinky sex ring. I just know it.
I think they were also, but I don't believe that they knew the danger of it. Something went wrong, resulting in JonBenet's death, and I think they both covered it up because if it had been revealed that they allowed their child to be a part of this ring (which they must have assumed wasn't dangerous but might have been lucrative), they would have served time. But no, I don't think they had any hand in killing JonBenet. Patsy was strange, but I don't believe that she was a killer.
I think they were also, but I don't believe that they knew the danger of it. Something went wrong, resulting in JonBenet's death, and I think they both covered it up because if it had been revealed that they allowed their child to be a part of this ring (which they must have assumed wasn't dangerous but might have been lucrative), they would have served time. But no, I don't think they had any hand in killing JonBenet. Patsy was strange, but I don't believe that she was a killer.
CA4Now, why do you also think they were involved in strange child sex ring? For me, a lot of it is intuition, and gut feelings about them. Also, a bit of circumstantial evidence.
1. They knew the killer and she was killed in the house. There was no break in.
2. Patsy wrote the ransom note
3. putting the child into beauty pageants is an odd activity for the wife of a millionaire business man.
Often, the Miss Americas of older generations, married well. Those who sought careers usually
became actresses or minor news anchors, weather women, or worked for causes or charities.
PR never actually became a Miss America, but she still married an older wealthy man, (typical)
But, she involved her child in an activity that is not typical of middle class people - much less wealthy ones.
Why would Patsy, an obvious snob; what to associate herself with these pageants and the pageant moms? If anyone has even seen a smidgen of an episode of "Toddler's in Tiaras" you will know that the mothers of these tiny contestants are mostly blue collar. Many are not married. Quite a few live in trailers or rented apartments. Trailers not Tudors, as I said in another post.
4. Her youthful interest in Miss America also does not connect the dots.
Miss America is a scholarship pageant. All of the contestants are college students or graduates who want to further their education. They are mostly
"over achieving" and attractive young women who see themselves as pretty.
Former cheerleaders and homecoming queens. Wholesome small town girls with ambition.
Patsy fit that mold to a T. She was from an was average, middle class family, and the graduate of the best state university in her state. UVA.
Child beauty contestants families, on the other hand, are generally working poor to lower middle class.
Having observed them, the mothers do not think much about the future or college for their daughters.
Their expectations are low or and unrealistic. Fame and fortune.
They are also a lot younger than PR was at the time that JonBetet was competing.
The typical mother is much younger than PR was. PR would have been closer to the age of a pageant grandmother - not mom. Why would she enjoy that?
However, the pageants were a good way to show case JonBenet, and to meet people who might want to use her. They could show her photographs on the internet and make their tawdry little connections.
Remember, they were new in Colorado. I know that they were quasi-society, but still, where did this broad circle of adoring friends come from? Who were these people?
They knew them well enough to spend Christmas with them? I would think that with their money that they would fly back East to be with family with out any problem. I sometimes spend Christmas with people who are not relatives, but I've known them for a very long time.
I think that these friends might have shared an interest with the Ramseys. And if it's what I suspect, having a daughter like JonBenet would have made them the "toast of the town".
Also, other than her mother and sister, does anyone know if PR had any close female friends? If she did not, that's another strange thing. It also let's us know a little more about PR.
Certainly, she could have made a close friend. Perhaps she thought that old friends from high school or even college, were not "good enough" for the new PR, OK, I get that.
Making friends with another woman of means, would require a degree of intimacy and self disclosure.
Women's friendships are more intense than men's are, and actually require some level of intimacy and self disclosure. Women are intuitive, also. We know when something is "off". (PRs maid new something was up)
Perhaps getting close to another woman of any status was too "risky" for Patsy.
I do not think that either of the Ramseys hurt JonBenet (directly) that evening. (Although I do think that PR was physically abusive of her)
I think they permitted someone into their home who had done this before. I agree with CA4NOW, they did not want this outcome, and they did not expect this twisted game to end in death.
Part of her anger could be traced to the fact that her daughter was taken from her, and to point to the killer would only be to reveal to the whole world her involvement in this activity.
Also, perhaps the killer knew he'd get a "pass" on this. So he went for the ultimate thrill - murder.
Even in this case, in the murders of children, the family members eventually make it to the suspect list.
They thought that there was going to be molestation. They didn't bargain for murder. Hence, the anger. PR was a control freak. And the creep was not supposed to kill.
Anyone else have any ideas about this? I admit that, this is conjecture and that none of this would hold up in a court of law. My background is in Sociology, so I tend to see events through that perspective.
Has anyone heard of anything like this in another child murder case?
I once ascribed to the "fit of rage" theory following a bed wetting incident. What never made sense to me was the need to use a garrotte on Christmas night. I mean who has one of those just hanging around the house? If it were a simple murder cover up of a beating gone too far, why all the kinky sex stuff? Why in the basement? I think because that's where she was taken for these events, and they didn't think to move her.
Why not hide the body in that massive house then dump it in the woods days later? People are not generally kidnapped within their own homes. That would have looked less suspicious.
The fact that PR was wearing the same outfit the next day, also points to the idea that they were up all night. My guess is who ever did this, came home from the party with them, or a contact was made there.
Yes I'm on a roll about this right now. I've been thinking about it for days. No one wants to discuss this anymore. Please indulge me! I can't get that "Patsy Pout" out of my mind!
Thank's Nanny Goat, now I have a name for "the face".
Hehe. It just came to me. Maybe Jon Benet whispered it in my ear to have the last laugh? I hope so.That kid got such a raw deal.
I think there was a hx of abuse with the parents (mom, physical & emotional), dad (not sure, physical, sexual probably) and this backdrop of abuse was just an escalation that evening.
The thing, too, which is so obvious to me is that Christmas Eve is a volatile time for dysfunctional families (which this one is, if only for the pageant weirdness, but other things, too, I believe) and what are the chances an "intruder" would be lying in wait Christmas Eve? I mean, the chances of that plus abuse plus murder are very, very small--nonexistent. A week before, maybe, week after, maybe. But, it fits in perfectly to the theory that the family had strong involvement with Jon Bonet's death. The stress of the holidays, those days preceding Christmas, coupled with the family's dysfunction, exploded that evening. Makes sense, psychologically.
The garrote thing is very odd, even for sick parents. It does tend to point itself to another's involvement. After the child died, would either parent be capable of doing it then? I mean, if so, how psychologically twisted were they?? It kinda fits it to the "sex ring" thing. It sounds so "out there," but we all know these things do happen.
CA4Now, why do you also think they were involved in strange child sex ring? For me, a lot of it is intuition, and gut feelings about them. Also, a bit of circumstantial evidence.
1. They knew the killer and she was killed in the house. There was no break in.
2. Patsy wrote the ransom note
3. putting the child into beauty pageants is an odd activity for the wife of a millionaire business man.
Often, the Miss Americas of older generations, married well. Those who sought careers usually
became actresses or minor news anchors, weather women, or worked for causes or charities.
PR never actually became a Miss America, but she still married an older wealthy man, (typical)
But, she involved her child in an activity that is not typical of middle class people - much less wealthy ones.
Why would Patsy, an obvious snob; what to associate herself with these pageants and the pageant moms? If anyone has even seen a smidgen of an episode of "Toddler's in Tiaras" you will know that the mothers of these tiny contestants are mostly blue collar. Many are not married. Quite a few live in trailers or rented apartments. Trailers not Tudors, as I said in another post.
4. Her youthful interest in Miss America also does not connect the dots.
Miss America is a scholarship pageant. All of the contestants are college students or graduates who want to further their education. They are mostly
"over achieving" and attractive young women who see themselves as pretty.
Former cheerleaders and homecoming queens. Wholesome small town girls with ambition.
Patsy fit that mold to a T. She was from an was average, middle class family, and the graduate of the best state university in her state. UVA.
Child beauty contestants families, on the other hand, are generally working poor to lower middle class.
Having observed them, the mothers do not think much about the future or college for their daughters.
Their expectations are low or and unrealistic. Fame and fortune.
They are also a lot younger than PR was at the time that JonBetet was competing.
The typical mother is much younger than PR was. PR would have been closer to the age of a pageant grandmother - not mom. Why would she enjoy that?
However, the pageants were a good way to show case JonBenet, and to meet people who might want to use her. They could show her photographs on the internet and make their tawdry little connections.
Remember, they were new in Colorado. I know that they were quasi-society, but still, where did this broad circle of adoring friends come from? Who were these people?
They knew them well enough to spend Christmas with them? I would think that with their money that they would fly back East to be with family with out any problem. I sometimes spend Christmas with people who are not relatives, but I've known them for a very long time.
I think that these friends might have shared an interest with the Ramseys. And if it's what I suspect, having a daughter like JonBenet would have made them the "toast of the town".
Also, other than her mother and sister, does anyone know if PR had any close female friends? If she did not, that's another strange thing. It also let's us know a little more about PR.
Certainly, she could have made a close friend. Perhaps she thought that old friends from high school or even college, were not "good enough" for the new PR, OK, I get that.
Making friends with another woman of means, would require a degree of intimacy and self disclosure.
Women's friendships are more intense than men's are, and actually require some level of intimacy and self disclosure. Women are intuitive, also. We know when something is "off". (PRs maid new something was up)
Perhaps getting close to another woman of any status was too "risky" for Patsy.
I do not think that either of the Ramseys hurt JonBenet (directly) that evening. (Although I do think that PR was physically abusive of her)
I think they permitted someone into their home who had done this before. I agree with CA4NOW, they did not want this outcome, and they did not expect this twisted game to end in death.
Part of her anger could be traced to the fact that her daughter was taken from her, and to point to the killer would only be to reveal to the whole world her involvement in this activity.
Also, perhaps the killer knew he'd get a "pass" on this. So he went for the ultimate thrill - murder.
Even in this case, in the murders of children, the family members eventually make it to the suspect list.
They thought that there was going to be molestation. They didn't bargain for murder. Hence, the anger. PR was a control freak. And the creep was not supposed to kill.
Anyone else have any ideas about this? I admit that, this is conjecture and that none of this would hold up in a court of law. My background is in Sociology, so I tend to see events through that perspective.
Has anyone heard of anything like this in another child murder case?
I once ascribed to the "fit of rage" theory following a bed wetting incident. What never made sense to me was the need to use a garrotte on Christmas night. I mean who has one of those just hanging around the house? If it were a simple murder cover up of a beating gone too far, why all the kinky sex stuff? Why in the basement? I think because that's where she was taken for these events, and they didn't think to move her.
Why not hide the body in that massive house then dump it in the woods days later? People are not generally kidnapped within their own homes. That would have looked less suspicious.
The fact that PR was wearing the same outfit the next day, also points to the idea that they were up all night. My guess is who ever did this, came home from the party with them, or a contact was made there.
Yes I'm on a roll about this right now. I've been thinking about it for days. No one wants to discuss this anymore. Please indulge me! I can't get that "Patsy Pout" out of my mind!
Thank's Nanny Goat, now I have a name for "the face".
JonBenet's case introduced the country to pageants. Most people (who weren't involved in that subculture) did not know about them, so they didn't have the extremely negative connotation they have now. I don't think we can really compare doing pageants in '96 with '13. There probably wasn't even a stereotypical pageant mom back then. I think Patsy and her mother wanted JonBenet to get the Miss America crown that she and her sister missed out on, so they figured they would start her early to get lots of practice.
What I know, is that the minute the police arrived, it should have been treated as a crime scene. Senior level detective's should have managed the entire situation.
The Ramsey's intimidated junior officers. And managed the whole scene.
I hope an analysis of this entire botched situation has been gone over, with recommendations of what best practices were ignored. And what should have been done. If nothing else, hopefully this serves as training for those in the field for improvements of processes.
A child killed in the home, with the body found, should have been a slam dunk case. At least enough evidence for charges.
Almost didn't read this thread today, but so glad I did! For the first time, something truly makes sense. CA4Now, Sheena12, Nanny Goat and anyone I missed, Thanks.
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I can't get that "Patsy Pout" out of my mind!
