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Old 07-19-2011, 07:43 AM
 
9,536 posts, read 4,876,259 times
Reputation: 3878

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosco55David View Post
Really?



Without knowing how Caylee died, how do you prove this beyond a reasonable doubt, especially with the defenses admission of drowning being taken into consideration?



Again, same question. How do you prove this without knowing how Caylee died.



And again. Hell, just apply the same question to the manslaughter and 2nd/3rd degree murder charges.

Nothing refutes it either.

We know Casey lied. Unfortunately for you and the prosecution the "lie = murder" logic...while not completely without merit...has gaps in it somewhat equivalent to the spacial differences between galaxies. That's not going to get you a conviction in a court of law, especially with a jury that holds the prosecution to a strict standard.
Using your standard, Baez could have said Caylee drowned in the bathtub, or fell out a window, or suffocated in a refridgerator, or electrocuted herself and the state is expected to 'refute' that allegation. Though George denied the drowning allegation, the jurors apparently doubted him.

As to 'how' Caylee died, the state isn't required to prove she died of suffocation, strangling, or another specific cause of death. Again, the mere allegation by Baez of an accidental drowning was enough to bamboozle these jurors.

True, lying doesn't a murderer make. However, when and what a defendant lied about should matter. The conduct of the accused is very relevant, including lies and the behavior before and after Caylee's body was found. I admit, 'common sense' can be wrong [the earth Isn't flat and Does move], but jurors are told to use their common sense in deciding which is the best evidence. These jurors left their common sense at home.

Edited to add--- Taratova, it took me many more words to say what you succinctly said in post 1176.

 
Old 07-19-2011, 07:55 AM
 
1,422 posts, read 4,639,065 times
Reputation: 1922
Quote:
Caylee was done no disservice. She had no standing in the case because, alas, she's gone.
No disservice to Caylee.... Alas, thanks for clearing that up.
 
Old 07-19-2011, 08:07 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 30,758,751 times
Reputation: 14583
Quote:
Originally Posted by didee View Post
No disservice to Caylee.... Alas, thanks for clearing that up.
Yeah, she doesn't matter anymore. She's dead. Once you're dead no one cares if justice is done for you.

What has our society come to that we think so little of a little girl who was murdered?
 
Old 07-19-2011, 08:13 AM
 
Location: Chicago
38,690 posts, read 89,252,619 times
Reputation: 29451
Was there something inadequate about the other 382 existing Casey Anthony threads that we needed a 383rd?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Yeah, she doesn't matter anymore. She's dead. Once you're dead no one cares if justice is done for you.

What has our society come to that we think so little of a little girl who was murdered?
What concerns me about "what has our society come to" isn't so much the outcome of this case as the lynch-mob mentality it has fueled.
 
Old 07-19-2011, 08:21 AM
 
Location: Savannah GA/Lk Hopatcong NJ
13,107 posts, read 24,905,013 times
Reputation: 11146
hmmm...bad evidence...very interesting

NYT: Computer expert reports error in Anthony trial - US news - The New York Times - msnbc.com
 
Old 07-19-2011, 10:11 AM
 
9,916 posts, read 9,310,188 times
Reputation: 8053
Quote:
Originally Posted by njkate View Post
Do you think this might be one of the witness tampering cases that the Orange County Sheriff's Dept was investigating? It's the Prosecution too.
 
Old 07-19-2011, 12:16 PM
 
Location: FL
1,716 posts, read 2,627,850 times
Reputation: 1852
Orange County Sheriff should have just let Casey run wild and party in Orlando and used her own vices against her. She clearly had an affinity for alcohol and young men so hire some chippendale dancers as detectives and buy her some drinks......she'll get drunk and say the wrong thing eventually.

Although there was apparently some discussion of her going to NY for a visit, she clearly didn't appear to be a flight risk. You can't blame the jury on this one. The interoggation by detectives was more befitting a "whodunit" by a high school principal after a smoke-filled restroom was evacuated.
 
Old 07-19-2011, 03:50 PM
 
Location: Tampa (by way of Omaha)
13,938 posts, read 19,166,693 times
Reputation: 9175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taratova View Post
It is not that she lied.. it is why and what she lied about.. the whereabouts of Caylee for 31 days.. and the fact Caylee was found dead. Dead. Use your common sense..
And still, none of that meets the burden of proof required for a criminal conviction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzarama View Post
Using your standard, Baez could have said Caylee drowned in the bathtub, or fell out a window, or suffocated in a refridgerator, or electrocuted herself and the state is expected to 'refute' that allegation.
Exactly. In the absence of evidence refuting their claims, the jury has little choice but to believe the defense's story. The burden of proof is ALWAYS on the prosecution.

That said, Jose Baez and the rest of the defense team deserves substantial praise here. While many lesser attorney's might have come out and admitted to the drowning to get the charges dropped or reduced, Baez was patient and let the prosecution really commit to their gameplan before he ambushed them. His fired his salvo when the prosecution would not be able to retreat and regroup.

Quote:
Though George denied the drowning allegation, the jurors apparently doubted him.
Understandable. The fact that George could've suffered significant consequences had he admitted to the defense's claims must be taken into consideration by the jury and George's behavior on the stand did not cast him in a favorable light.

Quote:
As to 'how' Caylee died, the state isn't required to prove she died of suffocation, strangling, or another specific cause of death.
Did you not read the quotes from the jury instructions that I just posted? Taratova has consistently avoided the question, so maybe you can explain to me how the prosecution would prove things like "The death was caused by the criminal act of Casey Marie Anthony" or "The death of Caylee Marie Anthony was caused by the culpable negligence of Casey Marie Anthony" without being able to explain HOW she died.

Quote:
True, lying doesn't a murderer make. However, when and what a defendant lied about should matter. The conduct of the accused is very relevant, including lies and the behavior before and after Caylee's body was found.
All true, but the defense had answers for that behavior. Even if they did not have answers, those facts should have supplemented stronger evidence as it alone would not be grounds for a conviction.

Quote:
I admit, 'common sense' can be wrong [the earth Isn't flat and Does move], but jurors are told to use their common sense in deciding which is the best evidence. These jurors left their common sense at home.
They're told to use their common sense in weighing evidence, NOT in coming to a verdict.
 
Old 07-19-2011, 04:43 PM
 
9,916 posts, read 9,310,188 times
Reputation: 8053
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosco55David View Post
Are you serious? Granted, I am exponentially smarter than the average person, but everything in that document is extremely clear to me and it only took me a few minutes to read the whole thing.
Do you belong to American Mensa or Mensa International?

I have my doubts that all of the Pinellas 12 understood the 26 pages of Jury Instructions. A few of the jurors didn't even graduate from high school. They wanted to go home ... probably had their bags packed ready to boogie. If they returned a not guilty it was over they could hit the road. If they convicted her it was more time in the hotel awaiting the sentencing phase.
 
Old 07-19-2011, 04:50 PM
 
1,422 posts, read 4,639,065 times
Reputation: 1922
One of the rudest people I ever met was a "Mensa" member. Or so she said, constantly threw it out there for all to know. Unfortunately, for all of her "brilliance" no one could work with her - her vengeful need for derisiveness toward others was unmanageable. She loved to fight and cause disruption. Of course, she had to 'win'. Some people just thrive on 'win-lose'.

She got sacked. Life was better. Humility is good.
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