U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > True Crime
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-08-2011, 12:26 PM
 
Location: Norway
103 posts, read 110,855 times
Reputation: 154

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil306 View Post
No death penalty and yes, he will end up there. Not to mention, under law in Norway, the maximum amount you can serve is 21 years. So our killer, will be out when he is about 53.
As others have explained to you, this is inaccurate. First, it is highly unlikely that ABB will end up there as he probably will be seen as a threat to society for an indefinate number of years. Second, the maximum amount in this case will probably not be 21 years, but an indefinate number of years.

A bit OT, but a man sentenced to 21 years of "forvaring" (detention) after a horrible crime in 2000 (raped and killed two girls) is still at Ila prison.

And OT again, it seems most here just chose to ignore the picture of the cell at Ila prison? Why?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil306 View Post
No, they cannot sentence to life in prison. Read it again. The MAXIMUM they can sentence one too is 21 yrs. Afterwhich, they can REQUEST 5 yr extentions; per your post.

However, you realize, its NEVER OCCURRED???
This is again not true. It has occurred. Before the new laws there were a similar law by another name which gave the same result: dangerous prisoners could be kept in prison or a special facility for more than 21 years. The difference is that before 2003 (I think) your extra sentence would be 10 years (with the possibility for more 10 years, and so on), now it's indefinite, but with an evaluation every five years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowblue View Post
It has never occured because the extension possibility is new in Norway.

Also, in 2008, a new law was made about serious crime against the society, allowing for 30 years of prison. This law has never been used, but it is expected that Breivik will be the first to be tried within this law.
Experts are debating this. This new law (crime against humanity) is meant for war crimes like Rwanda, Bosnia etc, and some want to reserve this law for war crimes. As I understand, it will also be harder to sentence detention in addition to the 30 years if one choose that charge. We'll see. It will probably take a least a year of investigation before a trial, according to the media.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarolinaWoman View Post
They should have never brought Anders Breivik in alive.
I disagree. According to the police they were less than a second away from shooting him, but didn't as he had thrown away his weapons and held his hands above his head. They did the right thing. I and everyone else need answers and hopefully an understanding to prevent this ever happening again.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil306 View Post
Yes, I agree with you. That should have taken him out when they had the chance.

All this "rehab" talk is total BS. You cannot rehabilitate this "man." And tell this to the 80+ dead people, who are now worm food. Not too mention, their families. How many thousands of people has this "man's" actions destroyed? The emotional and economic fall out, of what he did, hasn't even begun to to shape itself.

How many families are going to be ripped apart, because of what occurred? Husbands/wives getting divorced? Siblings becoming alcohol/drug dependant? How about the first responders? The paramedics? The police? Fireman? How about their emotional fallout, seeing so many people shot to death? The wounded?

What about the survivors? The people who had limbs amputated? The people who will, years from now, commit sucide, because they still cannot come to grips with what occurred?

ANY prison is too good for this worthless, walking, waste of oxygen...
Well, I do agree with you regarding the enormous hardship of the survivors and their families and everyone else, both emotionally and economically, and the society as well - the material loss in Oslo after the bomb is also huge.

But I still think it's a good thing he's alive.

And, I'm also inclined to think that rehabilitation will be difficult here, but we really don't know. That decision will be for experts to make, and only time will tell.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil306 View Post
He already won. He got everything he wanted and then some.
I don't think so.

The Labour Party has had a huge increase in polls (and there are elections in September), and the islamophobic communities are falling apart, accusing each other and running away from their sad, little forums. And the Norwegian community so far has not let itself be destroyed by fear as every terrorist wants. In my eyes, he has lost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magritte25 View Post
I beg to differ. He accomplished nothing in the way of policy changes, immigration reform or any of his other extreme right wing desires. All he accomplished was killing people.
I agree with you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taratova View Post
I believe if the people are morally bankrupt they will commit crimes. Perhaps in a society that teaches strong ethical and moral thinking, this will enable the population to walk the straight and narrow.

We here in America can push freedoms into areas that are morally degenerating to ones thinking. Lyrics to songs ,movies, games, drugs , drinking , sex, violence with general acceptance of lower standards regarding behavior can push one into thinking they can get away with what is against the law. Anyone can justify behaviors that are truly a degenerating effect on society. We see the effects of it in the newspapers daily.
I didn't understand any of this.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-09-2011, 06:52 AM
 
28,206 posts, read 20,747,850 times
Reputation: 16599
Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow View Post
Fabulous. I'll move to Norway and commit a crime. Sounds like paradise.
You'd give up your freedom to live in a place like that. Really? Interesting. I wouldn't. Plus I have morals and a code of ethics that wouldn't allow me to commit a premeditated crime. But hey, that's just me!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-09-2011, 07:04 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 30,742,486 times
Reputation: 14583
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magritte25 View Post
You'd give up your freedom to live in a place like that. Really? Interesting. I wouldn't. Plus I have morals and a code of ethics that wouldn't allow me to commit a premeditated crime. But hey, that's just me!
It would depend on the crime. As long as no one got hurt, it would be tempting. Seriously, the prisoners there are living better than I can ever hope to live. I'm not sure why Norway thinks criminals should be rewarded like that but it sure would be tempting to take them up on that offer. Think about it. No bills to pay, no job to have to get up and go to, free medical, education, training and a beach to walk on and a sauna too. It's not exactly prison. They just can't leave the island but who needs to with the ammenities there? Most of us live our lives within the same area anyway but don't have a beach and a sauna.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-09-2011, 07:07 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 30,742,486 times
Reputation: 14583
Quote:
Originally Posted by mag32gie View Post
Sounds like a good idea and a good place for 1st time offenders.
Do something again and get sent to a real prison.
This prison is for murders, drug dealers and those who have taken large bribes in particular. I can see first offense for drugs but not the other two. Murderers should just be locked up. People who take bribes come from a higher segment of society that should know better so lock them up in a real prison too.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-10-2011, 05:12 AM
 
28,206 posts, read 20,747,850 times
Reputation: 16599
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
It would depend on the crime. As long as no one got hurt, it would be tempting. Seriously, the prisoners there are living better than I can ever hope to live. I'm not sure why Norway thinks criminals should be rewarded like that but it sure would be tempting to take them up on that offer. Think about it. No bills to pay, no job to have to get up and go to, free medical, education, training and a beach to walk on and a sauna too. It's not exactly prison. They just can't leave the island but who needs to with the ammenities there? Most of us live our lives within the same area anyway but don't have a beach and a sauna.
Well I would not break the law in order to give up my freedom to live in a nice prison. I don't know any rule abiding citizen who would really. The criminals are not being rewarded. As several Norwegians have said on this thread, they truly value their freedom and having it taken away is a punishment.

I think you are greatly underestimating the power of having your own will taken away from you.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-10-2011, 05:14 AM
 
28,206 posts, read 20,747,850 times
Reputation: 16599
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
This prison is for murders, drug dealers and those who have taken large bribes in particular. I can see first offense for drugs but not the other two. Murderers should just be locked up. People who take bribes come from a higher segment of society that should know better so lock them up in a real prison too.

That is a mighty big brush you are using Ivory. There are so many different classes of murder that happen in so many different circumstances that you can't just say, "Murderers should just be locked up."

I know it's not the popular thing to say, but there are many murderers who were imprisoned, rehabilitated, released and gone on to live productive lives. I think those are successes of the justice system.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-10-2011, 06:52 AM
 
1,736 posts, read 1,592,078 times
Reputation: 1130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
It would depend on the crime. As long as no one got hurt, it would be tempting. Seriously, the prisoners there are living better than I can ever hope to live. I'm not sure why Norway thinks criminals should be rewarded like that but it sure would be tempting to take them up on that offer.
I'm sorry to say, I think that reflects more on the quality of the life you've made for yourself compared to the average in Norway, than it says about the quality of prisons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Think about it. No bills to pay, no job to have to get up and go to, free medical, education, training and a beach to walk on and a sauna too. It's not exactly prison. They just can't leave the island but who needs to with the ammenities there? Most of us live our lives within the same area anyway but don't have a beach and a sauna.
It actually takes years in other prisons to work your way to the island prison.

And I'm not sure where you get the "no job to go to" from. Every prison, even the most comfortable ones are heavy on instilling a normal working routine in the prisons. I looked up the day of a Norwegian prison:

07.15: Get out of bed, dressed, breakfast.
07.40: Meeting with the other guys in your cell unit.
08.00: Work starts. Often building crates, but you could be ordered to pretty much anything you are fit for.
11.30 - 12.00: Lunch
15.00: Work ends, dinner.
15.45 - 16.50: You get to go outside for an airing
17.00-17.45 : Locked up again
17.45 - 20.45 : Social time with the other inmates, gym visits, phone calls etc.
20.45: Locked up for the night.

Everyone in the country has free medical, education, beaches to walk on etc. And bills? Whatever bills you had when you went in, will keep running. They are your own responsibility.

The prisons are like severe boarding schools for a reason: both try to instill a routine and ability to work in their boarders.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-14-2011, 05:12 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
18,678 posts, read 23,252,262 times
Reputation: 48876
In response to the OP.

I am all for humane prisons. Dehumanizing people does not make them more law abiding or complaint.
It makes the mean and full of rage. As the Norwegians have noted, most come from very troubled backgrounds and are already hostile and violent.

Just what the society needs - a more aggressive, violent and rage filled criminal than was first arrested. How does our model benefit society? Never mind the offender.

There are some crimes and some criminals who should never be released. I am a real fan of life in prison with out the possibility of parole.
I see incarceration first and foremost not as punishment but as a way to segregate dangerous people from others.

Our system is not working. We should examine others and learn from their success.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-15-2011, 10:20 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 30,742,486 times
Reputation: 14583
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
In response to the OP.

I am all for humane prisons. Dehumanizing people does not make them more law abiding or complaint.
It makes the mean and full of rage. As the Norwegians have noted, most come from very troubled backgrounds and are already hostile and violent.

Just what the society needs - a more aggressive, violent and rage filled criminal than was first arrested. How does our model benefit society? Never mind the offender.

There are some crimes and some criminals who should never be released. I am a real fan of life in prison with out the possibility of parole.
I see incarceration first and foremost not as punishment but as a way to segregate dangerous people from others.

Our system is not working. We should examine others and learn from their success.
I agree with this but it's not posh prisons that work. If you look at other countries, that have even lower recividism rates, you'll see what works is a focus on rehabilitation. You don't need posh prisons to rehabilitate criminals.

We tend to treat incarceration as punishment but people won't stand for criminals living better than the average person so it's not going to change any time soon. Perhaps, if we were an oil exporting nation, like Norway, we might have the funds to do it but we don't. Our export is food and the world doesn't take kindly to charging higher prices for food so you can improve the lives of your own people. Food is one of the things we're not suposed to make huge profits on and the world would scream foul if we tried. No one cares if you make huge profits on oil and profits from oil production make a difference.

Before we start examining other cultures, we need to make sure we're examining cultures we can actually emmulate. We need to look at other oil importing nations that have better track records than us because theirs are the, financial, arrangements we have some hope of emmulating.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-16-2011, 07:38 AM
 
1,736 posts, read 1,592,078 times
Reputation: 1130
Funds should not be the problem. Norway may export oil, but does not use the oil money, so it is possible without oil money. Sweden and Denmark does the same thing without oil.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > True Crime
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top