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Old 08-25-2011, 12:09 PM
 
Location: Orlando, Florida
43,858 posts, read 44,625,879 times
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Not everyone who goes to prison is a monster or has a life long sentence....... and truthfully, they SHOULD be assured a safe environment and the choice of schooling or job skill training. This is hard for me to say that because if I bunch them up, then I'm prone to feel that prisoners don't deserve anything. But they are actually individuals with a whole variety of circumstances and some CAN do their time and come out the other side as productive citizens. They do deserve that chance.
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Old 05-16-2012, 04:12 PM
 
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
I'm referring to anyone who was in a prison like this for 21 years. You'd have no life on the outside and life on the inside is like vacation. If I had no life on the outside, why be outside? Just commit another crime and go back in for another 21 years. The "punishment" for doing so is really a reward.
And yet it is the US prison system, that has the problem with repeat offenders, not Norway. Could it be that rehabilitation just works? That the US system does nothing but turn inmates into animals who can't function in society. Therefore giving them no other option but to commit another crime to go back? The US has the largest prison population in the world, and the one of the highest rates of violent crime rates in the world. The US criminal justice system is probably not the best example of one that is successful.
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Old 05-16-2012, 04:17 PM
 
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
7,142 posts, read 8,889,188 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil306 View Post
No, they cannot sentence to life in prison. Read it again. The MAXIMUM they can sentence one too is 21 yrs. Afterwhich, they can REQUEST 5 yr extentions; per your post.

However, you realize, its NEVER OCCURRED???
Do you have a source for your contention that it has NEVER OCCURRED?
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Old 05-16-2012, 04:40 PM
 
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
7,142 posts, read 8,889,188 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldengrain View Post
It's a shame that there are no psychological tests to separate people who can be rehabilitated from those who are probably hopeless.

Also, Scandinavian countries are more socialist. We, in the U.S, have a different way of looking at economic life and are willing to tolerate a higher level of poverty. Although that is no excuse for crime, it is the reason for most of it, I think. For people in prison here, the Norwegian prison may look like a country club, perhaps not so much so for a Norwegian.
Exactly, probably all of the services/benefits that the Norwegian prisoners get, would be available them on the outside. Therefor, they have no incentive to commit crimes to go back. Plus the Norwegian system is designed to prepare the inmates for life on the outside.

Unlike the US prison system which just dumps them with a bus ticket and a hundred dollar bill. And people wonder why prisoners get out and immediately commit another and go back.
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Old 05-17-2012, 05:59 AM
 
1,736 posts, read 1,592,935 times
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A few years back, Norways richest man went to prison for a couple of months for cheating on his boating permit. Some papers wrote about what his life would be like on the inside at the time.

One of the big goals of the Norwegain prison system is to prepare the inmates for a non-criminal life outside. Instilling a routine is paramount to that. You got to be up by 07.00, breakfast, work, lunch, work....you got about 2 hours each day to do your own thing. Socialize, watch TV etc.

Really, I think people overestimate how good it is to have pleasant surrondings when your life is not your own.

Also, if you spend years treating people like animals, telling them they are animals, there is a risk that they'll believe you. This is not so good when they are due to be released at some point. Unless you are a business trying to build repeat custom, in which case its ideal.
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Old 05-17-2012, 06:20 AM
 
Location: On the Ohio River in Western, KY
3,388 posts, read 5,748,006 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarolinaWoman View Post
There is nothing wrong with 23 hours in a cell with one hour of doing whatever.
I disagree. There is no need to lock up the average "criminal" like a wild rabid animal, not to mention in some cases it's against the law.

I don't mean murders or anything serious, I mean stuff like pot possession, failure to appears, minor (under $100) bounced checks, etc...

Our local detention center houses county, state and federal prisioners in this 24/7 manner and there are issues DAILY! Once a week are they allowed 1 hour "yard time" in a space smaller than the average HS gym floor, with almost the whole jail out there at the same time. (women seperate from the men, and the men are split into 2 groups)

The only other times anyone is allowed to leave their cells is if they go to church services (and if you are ANYTHING other than a non-Catholic christian, TOUGH LUCK (which is illegal BTW)!), or twice a day to med call if you take medicines, and that's it. Basically, you are stuck in a very small room wall to wall with anywhere from 10-15 other people (they stuff em in there that's for sure!), and no where to go, and nothing to do, nothing to read but religious materials (which IMO is pushing an agenda, and no educational materials either!).

You either have three choices concerning your hygeine, either 1, have someone put money on the books for you to buy soap and shampoo and deoderant, 2, be lucky if another inmate lets you borrow theirs, or 3, suffer and take the chance on getting your ass beat for stinking up the cell.

Not to mention the guards are intentionally rude, vicious, and spiteful with no reason or provocation, which causes tempers to flare and fights to start.

I can't understand why compassion and understanding disappears when someone is incarcerated. It's a proven FACT, if you treat people right, they are better to deal with and nicer and easier to manage. Especially those who haven't really done much wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taratova View Post
I believe if the people are morally bankrupt they will commit crimes. Perhaps in a society that teaches strong ethical and moral thinking, this will enable the population to walk the straight and narrow.
Sorry but I have to disagree. I don't think someone is morally bankrupt for breaking the law in each and every case.

You really think someone who had a failure to appear deserves to be in max security lockdown?!

BTW, max sentence for a FTA is ONE YEAR in jail. Is that right? Hell no! But it can and does happen.
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Old 05-17-2012, 07:07 AM
 
Location: Scotland
7,972 posts, read 10,099,264 times
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Everyone is bashing Norways "system" well answer me this, why is it safer and has considerably lower reoffending rates than the USA and UK? Our attitudes towards throwing every tom, dick and harry in jail is making our societies more crime ridden not less, we will have to wake up eventually.
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Old 05-17-2012, 12:34 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
4,464 posts, read 10,003,296 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil306 View Post
No, they cannot sentence to life in prison. Read it again. The MAXIMUM they can sentence one too is 21 yrs. Afterwhich, they can REQUEST 5 yr extentions; per your post.

However, you realize, its NEVER OCCURRED???
It has actually, several times, here's just one example: Forlenget forvaring - P4 Radio Hele Norge

And in the case of Anders Behring Breivik, it's completely impossible for him to be released from prison as long as he holds the same beliefs as he does now.

He also will not be serving time at the new Halden prison, but at the maximum security facility at Ila Fengsel, if he's not declared criminally insane that is, which by all accounts, he won't be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarolinaWoman View Post
They should have never brought Anders Breivik in alive.

I don't think prison should be a resort type facility. Individuals are sent to prison as punishment for crimes committed. There is nothing wrong with 23 hours in a cell with one hour of doing whatever.
That's the inherent difference in thinking between the American way of looking at crime and punishment and the Norwegian, in Norway, it's being forcefully removed from society that's considered the punishment, in other words having your time and ability to move freely, removed. When that punishment has been put in place, the focus is turned to what will happen with the prisoner upon their release, and preparing them as best as possible for that, to prevent their return. And to be frank, that's the area that needs work in Norway, not the area of punishment.

If the point is purely to punish, one might as well do away with prisons almost entirely and simply bring back corporal punishment, it's faster, surely sends a more immediate message to the wrongdoer, and eventually prevents them from committing another crime. Why lock a dog up, if the point is to beat it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
ROTFLMAO....

Hmmmm? Everything costs more and taxes are at 43% compared to our 28%. Unless the government is giving everyone spa days, I doubt they are living like those who are incarcerated.

I will grant that they do not have the poverty level we have but you'll have to prove to me that every day life in Norway exceeds living at Club Med prisons. Please back up your claim that the population of Norway enjoys a fantastic standard of living that far surpasses our own. The inmates have sauna's, sun decks to sun bathe on, live in houses, have access to free education, free job training, fully equipped kitchens to work in, etc, etc, etc.... please prove that the general population in Norway lives better than this. I won't hold my breath.... While they do earn a higher average income than we do, they pay 50% more in taxes than we do. If you're not keeping it, it's not adding to your standard of living though their lower class citizens do fare much better than ours due to a higher minimum wage and things like free health care but I don't think you'll find their standard of living much higher when you compare our middle class to their middle class but have at it. You made the claim, now prove it. Prove that every day live in Norway is better than every day life in a posh prison in Norway and so much so that the prison would actually seem like a prison. ... Think about it.... If this was true, they'd have a line at their border of people trying to get in....

I still think the biggest difference is a focus on rehabilitation not treating criminals like they are on vacation.
Well, there isn't a line at the border, because the border is largely open to those for who immigration is a viable option, namely other Europeans, and they do take advantage of it.

When healthcare is provided by the government and you can make $35-40/hr as a ditch digger/entry level construction worker, you can deal with the higher taxes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SUPERCHIC View Post
what a waste of money they should use that money to help the NON criminals in need of better housing
We/Norway have plenty of money to do both.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SUPERCHIC View Post
we are just giving our opinions not telling the Norway Government what to do.

Maybe it will collapes ad kill them all and then they can rot in hell for their crimes.

be it america or norway prison is about doing hard time not living in luxury.
I refer to my reply above, but no, in Norway the idea behind imprisonment is not about doing hard time. Doing time is considered the punishment, making it hard, only diminishes their chances of removing themselves from a criminal lifestyle when their imprisonment is done.

And just for reference, I am indeed Norwegian, and I am currently residing in the US.
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Old 05-17-2012, 04:37 PM
 
18,852 posts, read 31,742,630 times
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One issue that US prisons have to deal with, that Norway probably does not have to deal with...is cultural diversity, and the climate of gangs, language issues, and the whole myriad of problems that occurs with trying to maintain a prison with a diverse population. Prisons would be much easier to manage, if everyone had the same cultural experiences...
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Old 05-17-2012, 09:37 PM
 
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
7,142 posts, read 8,889,188 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasper12 View Post
One issue that US prisons have to deal with, that Norway probably does not have to deal with...is cultural diversity, and the climate of gangs, language issues, and the whole myriad of problems that occurs with trying to maintain a prison with a diverse population. Prisons would be much easier to manage, if everyone had the same cultural experiences...
So diversity = more crime and prisoners?

So how do you explain that Canada which is more diverse then the US, has less crime and a lower incarceration rate then the US?

Papua New Guinea which is considered to be the most culturally diverse country in the world (over 800 different languages and tribes), has less crime and a lower incarceration rate then the US? How do you explain that?

Honestly that argument just sounds like a weak attempt to rationalize the failed criminal justice system in the US.

#1 States: 715 prisoners per 100,000 people
#73 Canada: 116 prisoners per 100,000 people
#117 Papua New Guinea: 66 prisoners per 100,000 people


Prisoners per capita statistics - Countries compared - NationMaster
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