U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > True Crime
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-02-2011, 07:49 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 30,822,804 times
Reputation: 14584

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by phonelady61 View Post
You make a good point here and this is def something that should be thought about and over .But on the other hand there have been people that are over 21 and still make lousy parents . So there is always an exception to the rule .
Yes, and there are lousy drivers over 16, people who shoudln't vote over 18 and people who can't handle the decision to drink over age 21. Nothing is perfect but logic dicatates the younger a person is the less likely they are to be able to make decisions for a child. A high percentage of issues result from too young parenting. Maybe if we eliminate those, we'll have the resources to catch the kids born to parents who are over 21 who never should have had kids no matter what their age.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-02-2011, 09:12 AM
 
1,158 posts, read 1,608,722 times
Reputation: 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
Last year I read the book Journey Into Darkness, by John Douglas (with a co-writer) who is a former FBI agent and was one of the earliest of the profilers. The book is about the minds of the serial killers and child-molester killers. I recommend the book, but you might have a little trouble sleeping at night.

It talks about how they try to get into the heads of the killers by looking at their actions--for example, if a child rapist/killer had affection toward his victim (in his sick way) he will leave the body in a park or alongside a road where she will be easily found.

I also remember reading somewhere--not sure if it was the same book--that mothers who murder often put their kids' bodies in water--sort of a return-to-the-womb idea. Think of Susan Smith or that woman who drowned her kids in the bathtub.

Anyway, the point was--as I read this book it dawned on me as Douglas described these cases HOW DAMN MANY OF THEM THERE ARE!!! I guess living in our own parts of the country, we don't hear about all the child murders or other murders in other states, but it seems that they are just endless.
Thanks for sharing. It does sound like an interesting book,albeit a hard read, but I'll look for it. The psychology of the abusive mindset has to be further understood in order to set intervention standards and ( hopefully) prevent abuse and murder from happening at all.
And yes, there are so many of them out there. You realize they could be your neighbor, co-worker, landscaper, etc,etc. Scary!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-02-2011, 10:27 AM
 
52,179 posts, read 41,981,129 times
Reputation: 32562
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
Last year I read the book Journey Into Darkness, by John Douglas (with a co-writer) who is a former FBI agent and was one of the earliest of the profilers. The book is about the minds of the serial killers and child-molester killers. I recommend the book, but you might have a little trouble sleeping at night.

It talks about how they try to get into the heads of the killers by looking at their actions--for example, if a child rapist/killer had affection toward his victim (in his sick way) he will leave the body in a park or alongside a road where she will be easily found.

I also remember reading somewhere--not sure if it was the same book--that mothers who murder often put their kids' bodies in water--sort of a return-to-the-womb idea. Think of Susan Smith or that woman who drowned her kids in the bathtub.

Anyway, the point was--as I read this book it dawned on me as Douglas described these cases HOW DAMN MANY OF THEM THERE ARE!!! I guess living in our own parts of the country, we don't hear about all the child murders or other murders in other states, but it seems that they are just endless.
Good post.

300million people in the US and with even 0.5% mentally ill that gives us 1.5million crazy people out there (I've heard its actually higher than 1%)

So, especially in the internet age we hear about every single instance ESPECIALLY if they are particularily "newsworthy".

So, with a few million crazy people running around out there, and many of them being *functionally crazy* we are just going to keep the Nancy Grace's of the world busy forever.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-02-2011, 11:15 AM
 
9,262 posts, read 9,327,720 times
Reputation: 29046
Quote:
People such as these disgust me. I actually do have solutions but no one likes them.
I think parents need a permit - ESPECIALLY IF THEY ARE UNMARRIED, LIVE WITH A BOY FRIEND ARE UN EMPLOYED, MOVE AROUND A LOT or ARE NOT HS GRADS.

Profiling? You bet. Would have saved this girl, Casey Anthony and Zahara Baker.
In general having kids before 21 should be a juvenile offense.
On a personal level I completely agree with you. The problem I have observed over the years is that large numbers of people (probably the majority) are quite defensive of young teenage parents. I've made similar suggestions before and practically had my head bitten off in an argument as a result. You'll always get the same replies:

1. Older people can be bad parents too.
2. What we need to do is give these young mothers lots of help and resources so that they can be good parents.
3. Biological parents (whatever their age) have a natural right to parent their own offspring and no one has a right to challenge that.
4. Teen parenting was the norm until last 50 to 75 years.
5. Some even quote the Bible and tell us to stop "judging" teen parents and suggesting there is something wrong with what they are doing.

My replies always are:

I honestly haven't seen studies, but I suspect older parents are less implicated in child abuse and neglect cases than teen parents are. Our government is more and more budget conscious and I think we will be subsidizing teen mothers less in the future than we have in the past. Some of us dispute that there are any "natural rights" at all. Whether teen parenting was once a "norm" it no longer fits well into this modern society that requires a huge amount of education and training before one can anticipate earning a decent living. Finally, we form judgments about people and act on them all the time.

However, regardless of whether its a good idea or not, I don't anticipate society will ever prohibit teens from parenting. Given that fact, I think we can pour as much money into child welfare as we want. We'll never stop hearing about these awful cases of child abuse and neglect. It has gone on forever and will go on forever long after all of us are dead. I just think its a consequence of other choices we've made as a society.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-02-2011, 12:22 PM
 
Location: Florida
21,731 posts, read 11,181,768 times
Reputation: 7929
I believe there should be classes on how to budget money, parenting classes , resolving differences in a healthy manner, all this and more should be taught in schools. Many young people are not trained on how to deal with parenting, marriage, give and take with their spouses,and resolving differences without throwing every incident in with one reason to disagree.

Commitment is also a good subject that many young people do not understand. It is these things that lead to character building and can bring good results in adult situations. Too many times there are teens who are unprepared to deal with real life. It is not easy for the young ones to take on so much and not have the knowledge or support they need.

In Casey Anthony's case , she abused the support of her parents and lied and manipulated for the goal to put herself first. I have no pity for her.

It is those ones who try to do right and don't have the tools of knowledge to deal with life and are burdened with challenges daily..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-02-2011, 03:12 PM
 
Location: Chambersburg PA
1,739 posts, read 1,765,488 times
Reputation: 1465
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
I could support a law that does not allow anyone under 21 to keep a baby. There are just too many issues with young parents. Locigally, if you're not responsible enough to make the decision as to whether or not to have a beer at, say, 18, why would anyone think you're responsible enough to make decisions for a baby?

I think we need to say, you need to be X years old in order to have the right to keep a baby. We should decide on a minimum parenting age.

I know this is not PC but think about it. We've decided you can't drive until you're 16 and have gone through training, you can't vote until you are 18 and you can't drink until you are 21. So why are we allowing 15 year olds, with no training, to keep babies? Shouldn't parenthood be the LAST thing we allow based on age? Shouldn't you be considered a responsible adult by society before you're allowed to keep your baby? The baby involves more responsibility than driving, voting and the right to drink combined.
Well, then we just need to raise the age of majority to 21 period....with perhaps driving priveledges at 18.
Because otherwise, you could die for your country but not keep your kid
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-02-2011, 03:23 PM
 
Location: Chambersburg PA
1,739 posts, read 1,765,488 times
Reputation: 1465
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
On a personal level I completely agree with you. The problem I have observed over the years is that large numbers of people (probably the majority) are quite defensive of young teenage parents. I've made similar suggestions before and practically had my head bitten off in an argument as a result. You'll always get the same replies:

1. Older people can be bad parents too.
2. What we need to do is give these young mothers lots of help and resources so that they can be good parents.
3. Biological parents (whatever their age) have a natural right to parent their own offspring and no one has a right to challenge that.
4. Teen parenting was the norm until last 50 to 75 years.
5. Some even quote the Bible and tell us to stop "judging" teen parents and suggesting there is something wrong with what they are doing.

My replies always are:

I honestly haven't seen studies, but I suspect older parents are less implicated in child abuse and neglect cases than teen parents are. Our government is more and more budget conscious and I think we will be subsidizing teen mothers less in the future than we have in the past. Some of us dispute that there are any "natural rights" at all. Whether teen parenting was once a "norm" it no longer fits well into this modern society that requires a huge amount of education and training before one can anticipate earning a decent living. Finally, we form judgments about people and act on them all the time.

However, regardless of whether its a good idea or not, I don't anticipate society will ever prohibit teens from parenting. Given that fact, I think we can pour as much money into child welfare as we want. We'll never stop hearing about these awful cases of child abuse and neglect. It has gone on forever and will go on forever long after all of us are dead. I just think its a consequence of other choices we've made as a society.
Like the fact that instant gratification is the norm, and it seems to be all about "me,me me" Kids in the last few generations weren't/aren't taught that life is not fair, and that not everyone wins...it takes hard work and even then, you often have setbacks.
Parents often can't or won't make time to concentrate (positively) on their kids and don't teach them what "no" means. They often parent from guilt.
It's been proven time and again that kids, even from modest means, that had their parents time and interaction, were better off and achieved more, than those who are let to do what they want.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-02-2011, 04:19 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 30,822,804 times
Reputation: 14584
Quote:
Originally Posted by faeryedark View Post
Well, then we just need to raise the age of majority to 21 period....with perhaps driving priveledges at 18.
Because otherwise, you could die for your country but not keep your kid
What does the ability to die have to do with the ability to raise a child? In the list of things we should earn the right to be able to do, raising a child should come last. Being old enough to fight and die has nothing to do with being old enough to parent a child. While I do think that anyone old enough to enlist should be able to drink, especially when on base, we have to put the child first and a parent who isn't ready to parent is a parent who isn't ready to parent no matter what else they might be capable of doing.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-02-2011, 04:23 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 30,822,804 times
Reputation: 14584
Quote:
Originally Posted by faeryedark View Post
Like the fact that instant gratification is the norm, and it seems to be all about "me,me me" Kids in the last few generations weren't/aren't taught that life is not fair, and that not everyone wins...it takes hard work and even then, you often have setbacks.
Parents often can't or won't make time to concentrate (positively) on their kids and don't teach them what "no" means. They often parent from guilt.
It's been proven time and again that kids, even from modest means, that had their parents time and interaction, were better off and achieved more, than those who are let to do what they want.
You are touching on a serious issue here. Kids today need several years as adults to learn lessons my generation had learned by the time we entered high school. Unfortunately, having a baby is a way to draw attention to me, me, me...but it's about the baby and NOT me once the baby is born. I think many young mothers have a problem making this transition. They are shocked once the baby is here and, suddenly, no one is fawning over them. Instead, they're, GASP, EXPECTING SOMETHING FROM THEM...as if a pregnancy suddenly turned her into an adult....

Young people are in for a rude awakening these days and it's a lot worse when there is a baby in the mix.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-02-2011, 06:00 PM
 
Location: Ohio
13,900 posts, read 10,820,589 times
Reputation: 7242
This type of thing happens every day in America, it's nothing new. There is nothing that can be done.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > True Crime
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top