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Old 08-02-2011, 06:25 PM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
56,365 posts, read 54,783,496 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhondee View Post
Thanks for sharing. It does sound like an interesting book,albeit a hard read, but I'll look for it. The psychology of the abusive mindset has to be further understood in order to set intervention standards and ( hopefully) prevent abuse and murder from happening at all.
And yes, there are so many of them out there. You realize they could be your neighbor, co-worker, landscaper, etc,etc. Scary!
BTW, the book is a paperback, and he has others. I first read The Cases That Haunt Us, which covers from a profiling standpoint Jon Benet Ramsey, OJ, Jack The Ripper, I think The Lindbergh Baby and a few others.

He has another one called Mindhunter that I want to read.
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Old 08-02-2011, 06:27 PM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
56,365 posts, read 54,783,496 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Good post.

300million people in the US and with even 0.5% mentally ill that gives us 1.5million crazy people out there (I've heard its actually higher than 1%)

So, especially in the internet age we hear about every single instance ESPECIALLY if they are particularily "newsworthy".

So, with a few million crazy people running around out there, and many of them being *functionally crazy* we are just going to keep the Nancy Grace's of the world busy forever.
I'm not a big TV person (except for the ID Channel with all the True Crime) so I never heard of this woman until I happened upon her by accident near the end of the Casey Anthony trial. I thought I'd listen because I hadn't really been following the case and wanted to catch up.

That was the first and last time I want to listen to her.
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Old 08-03-2011, 07:27 AM
 
Location: Chambersburg PA
1,739 posts, read 1,763,763 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
What does the ability to die have to do with the ability to raise a child? In the list of things we should earn the right to be able to do, raising a child should come last. Being old enough to fight and die has nothing to do with being old enough to parent a child. While I do think that anyone old enough to enlist should be able to drink, especially when on base, we have to put the child first and a parent who isn't ready to parent is a parent who isn't ready to parent no matter what else they might be capable of doing.
So, it's okay to be able to go fight for your country and die not ever having had the chance to start a family? i guess that's one way to lower population growth
It's okay to learn to take life at 18, but not bring life into the world?
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Old 08-03-2011, 07:33 AM
 
Location: Chambersburg PA
1,739 posts, read 1,763,763 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
That was the first and last time I want to listen to her.
I wish she'd go away. She does nothing but add sensationalism . i've said it before and will say it again, maybe Casy athony would have ahd alittle more justice brought on her if NG would have kept her mouth shut.
Instaed, she stirred up a hornet's nest of people calling for blood and putting pressure on the investigators and prosecutor who then rushed it to trial. If more care had been taken and CA would have ben charged and found guilty of neglect and child endangermen...then she'd be in jail and the murder investigation could have had more time to be worked through.
Not to mention, I pity the people who NG comes down on...who turn out to be innocent
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Old 08-03-2011, 07:37 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 30,794,128 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faeryedark View Post
So, it's okay to be able to go fight for your country and die not ever having had the chance to start a family? i guess that's one way to lower population growth
It's okay to learn to take life at 18, but not bring life into the world?
Being old enough to fight doesn't mean you're old enough to raise a child. All you really need to be able to fight is to be physically mature enough and to be trained. Parenting takes maturity.

You're stuck in parenting is a right but what about the right of a child to be raised by good parents? The fact you can, physically, reproduce does not mean you are ready to raise a child. These things go in steps. Being ready for one thing speaks nothing of being ready for another, so, yes, you can be old enough to fight and die but not old enough to raise a child.

Seriously, we need to stop seeing procreation as a right and start looking at the rights of the child. Children are not posessions. They are people and they deserve to be raised by good parents. THAT is more important than someone's "right" to procreate.
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Old 08-03-2011, 08:03 AM
 
Location: Chambersburg PA
1,739 posts, read 1,763,763 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Being old enough to fight doesn't mean you're old enough to raise a child. All you really need to be able to fight is to be physically mature enough and to be trained. Parenting takes maturity.

You're stuck in parenting is a right but what about the right of a child to be raised by good parents? The fact you can, physically, reproduce does not mean you are ready to raise a child. These things go in steps. Being ready for one thing speaks nothing of being ready for another, so, yes, you can be old enough to fight and die but not old enough to raise a child.

Seriously, we need to stop seeing procreation as a right and start looking at the rights of the child. Children are not posessions. They are people and they deserve to be raised by good parents. THAT is more important than someone's "right" to procreate.
I would think it takes some maturity to go to war, use deadly weapons correctly, safely,...not to mention deal with life and death on a daily basis, and cope with the fact that you may have taken a life.
Conversely, an 18-20 yr old who gets pregnant gets their child snatched up by the state and given to "good parents" when that 18-20 yr. old may very well be a good parent.., but we base the decision soley on their age?
There's loads of cases where foster parents aren't so "good" and it would be a further burden on the state.
It would be abetter compromise IMO not to peg every teen/young adult who gets pregnant as unworthy of their child...but instead require, classes, and regular monitoring.
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Old 08-03-2011, 08:25 AM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
56,365 posts, read 54,783,496 times
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My own sister had a daughter at 18. She was a great mom, and her daughter, now 32, turned out very well.

Part of it was my sister's determination not to fit the stereotype of an unwed teenage mother.
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Old 08-03-2011, 08:58 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 30,794,128 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faeryedark View Post
I would think it takes some maturity to go to war, use deadly weapons correctly, safely,...not to mention deal with life and death on a daily basis, and cope with the fact that you may have taken a life.
Conversely, an 18-20 yr old who gets pregnant gets their child snatched up by the state and given to "good parents" when that 18-20 yr. old may very well be a good parent.., but we base the decision soley on their age?
There's loads of cases where foster parents aren't so "good" and it would be a further burden on the state.
It would be abetter compromise IMO not to peg every teen/young adult who gets pregnant as unworthy of their child...but instead require, classes, and regular monitoring.

Yes, which is why you have to be 18 to enlist, however, having the maturity to go to war speaks nothing as to whether or not you have the maturity to raise a child. They are different things and the qualifications are measured on different scales.

Yes, I would base the decision on age because we would save the majority of kids who are abused each year if we did. Chilren are much more likely to be neglected and abused by older parents than say parents in their late twenties. It's a game of statistics. You set the age of parenting at an age that gives you, reasonable, assurance that the parent is mature enough to raise a child. Personally, I'd put that at about age 25. I hope my children aren't even thinking about having kids until, at least, their mid 20's. I would consider it a disaster if they had kids before they graduated from college. No good for them and no good for the child. I would advise putting the baby up for adoption and giving it the gift of parents who are mature enough to be ready for a child and want a child.

You are making this about the parent when it really should be about the child. It's not about whether someone is old enough to die for their country. It's about whether or not they are old enough to be a good parent to a child who deserves good parents. This is not about what the parent deserves. It's about what the child deserves. Imagine how different our world would be if every child had the right to good parents who cared for them well? We are treating procreation as a right when it should be a privlidge. There is too much at stake.
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Old 08-03-2011, 09:06 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 30,794,128 times
Reputation: 14584
Quote:
Originally Posted by faeryedark View Post
I would think it takes some maturity to go to war, use deadly weapons correctly, safely,...not to mention deal with life and death on a daily basis, and cope with the fact that you may have taken a life.
Conversely, an 18-20 yr old who gets pregnant gets their child snatched up by the state and given to "good parents" when that 18-20 yr. old may very well be a good parent.., but we base the decision soley on their age?
There's loads of cases where foster parents aren't so "good" and it would be a further burden on the state.
It would be abetter compromise IMO not to peg every teen/young adult who gets pregnant as unworthy of their child...but instead require, classes, and regular monitoring.
How many children are you willing to risk to give every teen the benefit of a doubt? WHY do teens deserve the benefit of a doubt more than a baby deserves better odds they will have good parents?

You declaring the right of a teen to parent but not even considering the right a child has to good parents. Do the children even matter to you? Or are they irrelevent as long as teenagers are given the benefit of a doubt? You are experimenting with children if you are relying on montoring and classes. We should be requiring proof of the ability to parent BEFORE we allow any teen to keep a baby.

I would support requiring parenting classes for anyone who wants to have a child no matter what their age in addition to a minimum age for parenting. You have to have a license to drive a car but any idiot is allowed to parent a child. You have to wonder about that.
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Old 08-03-2011, 09:14 AM
 
Location: Chambersburg PA
1,739 posts, read 1,763,763 times
Reputation: 1464
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Yes, which is why you have to be 18 to enlist, however, having the maturity to go to war speaks nothing as to whether or not you have the maturity to raise a child. They are different things and the qualifications are measured on different scales.

Yes, I would base the decision on age because we would save the majority of kids who are abused each year if we did. Chilren are much more likely to be neglected and abused by older parents than say parents in their late twenties. It's a game of statistics. You set the age of parenting at an age that gives you, reasonable, assurance that the parent is mature enough to raise a child. Personally, I'd put that at about age 25. I hope my children aren't even thinking about having kids until, at least, their mid 20's. I would consider it a disaster if they had kids before they graduated from college. No good for them and no good for the child. I would advise putting the baby up for adoption and giving it the gift of parents who are mature enough to be ready for a child and want a child.

You are making this about the parent when it really should be about the child. It's not about whether someone is old enough to die for their country. It's about whether or n had their had their oldest children at 19 and ot they are old enough to be a good parent to a child who deserves good parents. This is not about what the parent deserves. It's about what the child deserves. Imagine how different our world would be if every child had the right to good parents who cared for them well? We are treating procreation as a right when it should be a privlidge. There is too much at stake.
I guess that's where our viewpoints diverge. I'm not one of those "protect the children at all costs type people"
I have seen that mentality cause way too much pain in my own family with false accusations and such.
I believe in balance. Not jumping from one extreme to the other.
I believe children do deserve good loving homes. But choosing those homes based on age isn't the way to go. There are loads of kids that were abused in foster care by parents way over 18...and there are loads of kids that had a 19 yr old mom and have been quite happy.
Three of my closest friends had their oldest kids at 19 and those "kids" are happy well adjusted adults now.
I myself, got pregnant (but miscarried) at 19. I was working full-time and helping to take care of my mom who had cancer. (she went into remission but died 4 years later) My oldest (who I had at age 22) was only a year and a half old and doesn't remember her.
We get to read and hear about the sensational cases of child abuse but society doesn't equally praise all the young parents who do take good care of their kids...which leaves a rather one-sided impression.
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