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Old 02-06-2012, 10:06 PM
 
11,961 posts, read 12,839,360 times
Reputation: 2772

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Singlelady10 View Post
Nancy Grace said on her show that their son's started to talk about what happened to their mom the night of the camping trip. They describe that dad had mom in the trunk, then took her into the cave to look for crystals. Mom never came out but dad came out.
They continue to tell Susan's parent that story. Her parents told their other daughter who was on Nancy Grace tonight. She said she had tuck them into bed just Saturday night. So sad.
Josh Powell is a sick human being to do this to those babies.

There was a good point made on Nancy's show. Josh was ordered supervised visitation. Why wasn't it in a public place? Most supervised visitation takes place at a public place according to the attorney's on her show. If that's true, the system once again failed to protect these kids.
I'm not in any way trying to excuse his behavior. I'm asking you to look at the bigger picture of greater crime and identify the evil bird that came to this mans ear talking him into murdering his own wife and betraying his own children. His marriage depended on him keeping his distance from his father, and when the door opened to his father, his life was undermined. Everyone knows in their family at least one meddlesome relative. Cheat sheet answer it's the individual you dread giving an invitation to Christmas dinner. Some of them on the extreme end of malice get vicarious thrills starting trouble using others to do their bidding and take the fall for them. They're exceptionally sick individuals, and evidence is suggesting his father not only originated the damage to Josh as a child. He set him in motion to commit crimes against his own family and ultimately destroy himself.

I have no degree in abnormal psych, but I've lived some years to witness the ways of this 'other' world these individuals live out. People always believe it's the prostitute that was the evil bird in a mans ear destroying his family, but in my experience, it's invariably the pimp giving him the instructions how to blow his own brains out. It's the boys in the locker room, the bad cops, or malevolent 'clergy' (which aren't religious, but angling the system for personal gain). While the rest of the world is sent on legalistic fools errands chasing down the usual suspects (prostitutes are victims of pimps too), the same evil gets by with impunity time and time again. Susan Smith methods are parallel to Charles Mansons methods.
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Old 02-06-2012, 10:06 PM
 
9,188 posts, read 9,267,265 times
Reputation: 28759
Quote:
what a tragedy for the children (and the mother, of course)

our system is failing these children time and time again.

they should never have been given back to a murder suspect in the first place, but will we ever learn?
You really crack me up. You're the same guy who is always on other forums telling us how we need to cut taxes and government. You imply that only Ron Paul and his Libertarian cohorts can save this country.

You scream and bellyache constantly about paying taxes and the very suggestion of a tax raise on even the very wealthiest people in this country.

Now, you're angry that government isn't big enough. Its not big enough to ignore the fact that Josh Powell was never convicted of any crimes. Its not big enough to ignore the fact that we have a Constitution which gives even the "riff raff" rights. It wasn't big enough to step in and save these children from a father who had no history of abuse against these kids (whatever he did to their mother). Well boo hoo to you. You don't see the connection? I do.

Do I have to tell you this is not a perfect world? Do I have to remind you that no human institution will ever be infallible no matter what we do.

In any event, you lost any moral authority you had to whine or moan about this problem by screaming constantly about reducing government and taxes. Suck it up. Look in a mirror. Deny it all you want too. Your attitudes have helped create a situation where there aren't enough resources to protect endangered children.
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Old 02-06-2012, 10:07 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,958 posts, read 22,104,197 times
Reputation: 10688
Oh my gosh! The latest news is that he axed his kids before he blew up the house!
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Old 02-06-2012, 10:31 PM
 
Location: SWFL
22,854 posts, read 19,290,501 times
Reputation: 21226
I just heard about this on the news tonight and could not believe my ears and eyes! OMG, such tragedy. I hope that bas*ard rots in Hell. Those poor grandparents. My heart just breaks for them.

I heard the boys didn't want to go to this meeting either.
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Old 02-06-2012, 10:32 PM
 
17,497 posts, read 10,653,610 times
Reputation: 6746
Quote:
Originally Posted by harborlady View Post
...You really believe you're Christian and personify an object lesson in one fell swoop.

The very kind of woman who would string a man like Christian Longo along pandering to his delusions rather than get him the help he needs. Speaking of women, a similar thing happened to Andrea Yates denying she had post partum depression. She was 'lazy' & 'spoiled' trying to avoid raising her 5 children. Out of the mouth of her husband- she needed more discipline. It's a good thing he's got a ego-massaging-friendly PTSD therapist of his own coaching him for years to blame the disease for why he took it upon himself to override her psychiatrists recommendations. Accountability must be avoided at every cost.

Above and beyond all gender distinctions there is a common thread on the subject of murdering their children... When born again christians, LDS, and Jehovahs witness theology is involved, those in most trouble are willfully neglected and shunned when times get rough and they're in most desperate need of guidance. When they're dying of heart disease, keep forcing diabetic meds on them, and blame them for why they die of the combined insulin overdose and a heart attack. Every problem human beings face is all about a lack of discipline, therefore, tough love comes out of the drawer first when they fail to run a mile in 5 min with one leg and kids on their back counting on them. :::Innocent look:::
I think her physitcs is some what to blame, he had her on a med that was known to cause voices in her head and gave her at least 2 anti-depressants at one point she was on 4 different meds some at the same time.

Outward appearances they're in the most trouble because they embraced a theology making a slave to appearances of propriety. Prosperity preaching lite. The moment they can't tithe and they're scraping pennies out of their car ashtrays for food, funny how no one from these orgs care to 'save' them anymore. They offer them a one way bus trip to NYC to facilitate the murder of John Lennon. Prosthelytizing in fancy neighborhoods and ignoring those in the worst trouble is so much more lucrative. Here's the fruit of your (c)hristian conservative compassion. Keep it for yourself, I'm having none.
In Andrea's case her psychiatrist is some what to blame, he had her on a medication that was known to cause voices in her head. Plus, gave her at least 2 anti-depressants. At one point she was on 4 different meds, some at the same time. Her husband said, she was seeing this doctor, but at one point she stopped going due to problems with the health insurance and Andrea was refusing to go back.
Seems to me your blaming people who weren't involved in her care (Christians) and she had mental issues, that her doctor was refusing to treat the right way.
The same with Mark Chapman, not sure why he's a part of this, but you brought him up. He was diagnosed with mental illness way before the shooting of Lennon. Not sure, how Christians are to blame.

Susan Smith or Casey Anthony had no ties to religion that knocks that blame out of the ball park.


In this day and age it's a little hard to tie religion to being a slave, there's help out there. These people had family and didn't turn to them for help, but it doesn't help if doctors are putting you on crap that you hear voices, telling you to do evil. I do understand some people's faith goes to far, but not all and who are we to judge if they are doing this of their free will.

To bad your refusing to see it's not just women this happens to and other issues can be in play. Violence committed by either sex should be looked at as a whole and not one sided.

By the way, I'm not a conservative and it would help if you would stop trying to tie that to why I believe the way I do. My faith does not run my life or my judgment on other issues in ones life that might be the problem. Like people being over medicated or tauted by social worker's and see no other way out, but to kill their selves and their children.

I don't know what caused Josh Powell to do this, but religion doesn't seem to be in this one either.
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Old 02-06-2012, 10:45 PM
 
Location: The Cascade Foothills
10,953 posts, read 8,683,671 times
Reputation: 6459
Default Oh, god...it gets worse.

Quote:
Updated at 10:07 p.m. ET: The preliminary autopsy results of Josh Powell and his two sons show that they suffered from carbon monoxide poisoning, and the boys also suffered from other injuries.
The Pierce County Medical Examiner tells KING 5 TV that 7-year-old Charles suffered "chop" injuries to the neck and 5-year-old Braden suffered similar injuries to the neck and head. Both the wounds and carbon monoxide poisoning were contributing factors in their deaths, the medical examiner said.
Pierce County sheriff officials say a hatchet was recovered next to the bodies in the home.
U.S. News - Officials: Powell children had head and neck wounds
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Old 02-06-2012, 11:13 PM
 
11,961 posts, read 12,839,360 times
Reputation: 2772
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
Now, you're angry that government isn't big enough. Its not big enough to ignore the fact that Josh Powell was never convicted of any crimes. Its not big enough to ignore the fact that we have a Constitution which gives even the "riff raff" rights. It wasn't big enough to step in and save these children from a father who had no history of abuse against these kids (whatever he did to their mother). Well boo hoo to you. You don't see the connection? I do.
I can understand your frustration, but I disagree that making government tasked with a larger list of to do is going to solve our problems. Government being able to see the larger problems for what they are (roots and all) needs to go about things more effectively. Even if it means enlisting the people to do it on a voluntary basis. Even if it means confronting religious institutions about their own contributions to social ills when cult behavior starts getting out of hand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
Do I have to tell you this is not a perfect world? Do I have to remind you that no human institution will ever be infallible no matter what we do.
Agree 100%, but meanwhile, this parade of slaughtered children continues on unabated. Please roll up your sleeves, sharpen your pencil, and lets figure out a better way to go about all this knowing it was a pre-existing condition predating western civilization. I'm asking diplomatically (and I so very much do stink at the art of diplomacy) that you focus on constructive solutions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
Your attitudes have helped create a situation where there aren't enough resources to protect endangered children.
Agree again, however, we are right back where we started from when you remain in perpetual hyper individual mode competing with another brand of hyper individual. Are we one nation or not? If there's an US vs THEM going on, who is them? What behavior defines THEM?

Outside the din of crabs in a barrel BS are weasels exploiting good natured stand up men. Meddle with a young boys mind at the right point in his life when he most needs a solid father figure to empower him to embrace his own free will responsibily, they can create monsters indefinitely. The senior stag sends the scout out to take the bullet to protect his own crown. Not to protect the flock. That's inconsistent with true Judeo-Christian ethics. It's something 'other' that doesn't belong here and never has wherever it's gone on the globe. It contributes nothing. It only drains the life out of people. It's the same demon our founders wrestled with and put at bay for a while, but it appears to be back with a vengeance. We need names for these things. Accurate names that are color blind and gender blind so that innocent people aren't caught in the dragnet of being labeled 'pagans' falsely.

I find it no small coincidence America has been sent on one fools errand after another after another leaving widows behind. Korea, Vietnam, Middle east. Leaving military wives behind preyed upon by other weasels using them for target practice on military bases. Leaving boys seeking father figures everywhere they go no matter how old they get. Exhibit A Newt Gingrich.

From a purely corporatist angle, American middle class have become conditioned to regularly uprooting themselves as nomads in their own country chasing down one dead end career after another after another. There's no such thing as a 30 yr job and proficiency at anything other than smooth talking Eskimos into buying ice rinks is reliably punished. Excellence in engineering is punished or grossly undervalued in comparision to middle men/ marketeers inflating their own salaries as music men. There's no such thing as community when the turnover rate in your neighborhood cycles every 3 yrs.

When men derive so much of their esteem from their professions, and the ethics of the professions change to something unethical, they are morally undermined. They forget why they ever took a job. They come home frustrated and take it out on the dog. They take it out on the wife. They take it out on the kids. Who is THEM? Define it. Who and what is telling American males to disrespect and denigrate American women? Look for the evil bird coming to your ear, and look again where it's living. Anyone with a shaky marriage could turn on Howard Stern or Rush Limbaugh telling them everything they think they want to hear. If they're talking themselves out of being married. If they're talking themselves out of their own families.
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Old 02-07-2012, 05:46 AM
 
5,273 posts, read 6,551,921 times
Reputation: 14922
Default Horrific!

I couldn't believe what I read this morning. As if the boys didn't suffer enough....the psycho had a hatchet and the boys had head and neck wounds.
RIP baby boys. My heart breaks for them.
Josh Powell Tried to Kill Sons With Hatchet Before Fatal Explosion - ABC News

The grandparents were just interviewed on the Today Show this am. Their strength gets them through. They said they knew the boys were with their daughter now.

Quote:
I heard the boys didn't want to go to this meeting either.
Yes Tami, the grandparents said they definitely didn't want to go there Sun. They wanted to play with their 2 year old cousin..

I cannot believe that he even had supervised visits after the mother went missing. Red flags from the very beginning! The laws have to change with these circumstances when the only person of interest was the husband! Maddening! The police said that they had an imminent arrest within the year coming. Obviously not soon enough!
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Old 02-07-2012, 05:51 AM
 
5,273 posts, read 6,551,921 times
Reputation: 14922
Jasper- maybe you could merge this thread with the other one. Thanks!
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Old 02-07-2012, 06:59 AM
 
Location: right here
4,131 posts, read 4,776,423 times
Reputation: 4868
what a horrible case-sickening.
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