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Old 02-10-2012, 01:38 PM
 
Location: The Cascade Foothills
10,953 posts, read 8,684,903 times
Reputation: 6459

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Does anyone know where Powell got his money? From what I understand, money issues had been a problem in his and Susan's marriage - there might have even been a bankruptcy.

I know he left the family home in Utah, but I thought I had heard it was in foreclosure, which would have prevented proceeds from sale.

He withdrew $7000.00 from his bank account the day before the murders but I've never even heard anything about him having a job.
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Old 02-10-2012, 04:05 PM
 
4,572 posts, read 7,057,201 times
Reputation: 4222
apparently now child abuse sites have been found on Josh's computer. I wonder if LE found this a long time ago and never said anything...if his computer was in the house it surely would have burned up. I'm somewhat confused as to when they knew about that.

So I'm thinking that Susan found out Josh was sexually abusing the boys and so he had to kill her...this is just speculation on my part but something serious had to have happened because she seemed pretty tolerant of him up until the night of her "disappearance". Guess the apple doesn't fall far from the tree...he and his dad are both sickos.
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Old 02-10-2012, 07:08 PM
 
9,191 posts, read 9,269,502 times
Reputation: 28794
Quote:
Beach- I want to bang my head against a wall with this case! It sickens me.
The drawing the older boy drew about mommy being in the trunk was last year! And said mommy didn't come home with us!!! Omg. Why didn't law enforcement arrest him back then..
Are you honest to God serious?

You realize that it takes "probable cause" that someone has committed a crime to arrest them don't you? Sounds like you don't.

Ok....so let's get this straight. A five year old kid makes the statement "mommy was in the trunk". This is in your mind is probable cause to arrest someone and charge them with murder? I've got news for you. That alone would not be enough. I'm glad its not. Five year old kids are not the most accurate people in the world. If you have a problem with what I'm saying than you better stop pontificating about criminal justice. Its obviously not something your an "expert" in.

I'll remind you of something very elementary. The state gets one shot at trying anyone for a criminal offense. Its why murder investigations are often long and drawn out affairs that can last months--sometimes even years--without charges being filed. If you don't have probable cause you can't arrest someone. If you don't have proof beyond a reasonable doubt you can't convict them of a crime.

I realize this a heart-wrenching situation. All of us could imagine something similar happening to our own kids. Nevertheless, we don't get to ignore the law to reach the result that we want to reach.

Look we can wish 1000 X over that Josh Powell and his fruitcake father would burn in hell. It doesn't change a thing. When I read this over and over again, I wonder how grown up some of the people are here. Its not exactly a mature or sophisticated dialogue.
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Old 02-10-2012, 07:47 PM
 
Location: 39 20' 59"N / 75 30' 53"W
16,085 posts, read 23,887,753 times
Reputation: 17982
Quote:
Originally Posted by loveautumn View Post
apparently now child abuse sites have been found on Josh's computer. I wonder if LE found this a long time ago and never said anything...if his computer was in the house it surely would have burned up. I'm somewhat confused as to when they knew about that.

So I'm thinking that Susan found out Josh was sexually abusing the boys and so he had to kill her...this is just speculation on my part but something serious had to have happened because she seemed pretty tolerant of him up until the night of her "disappearance". Guess the apple doesn't fall far from the tree...he and his dad are both sickos.
If you want to find out what was wrong with Josh Powell, look at the father Steven Powell and its a fairly good indicator.

Josh Powell could have been sexually abused or victimized in some way by his father, and Josh did the same to his own children.

Now, I'm speculating too. But typically how the cycle of abuse works.

Last edited by virgode; 02-10-2012 at 08:48 PM..
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Old 02-10-2012, 08:22 PM
 
9,912 posts, read 9,301,860 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinebar View Post
I'm not sure the caseworker could have done anything any differently under the circumstances. If she HAD made it into the house, she would most likely have been a victim as well.

What I don't understand is why were they having the supervised visits at his house? That just seems to be an invitation for problems - possible assault of the caseworker or something like what happened.

My former bosses had a daughter who went to school to work in the social services field. For a year or two after she graduated, while she was looking for a permanent position, she worked for a contract service (probably just like the one in the Powell case) where she was the one who supervised these visits.

I talked with her about it on several occasions and I remember her talking about sitting there, taking notes and observing, but I don't remember her ever saying the visits took place in the home of the parent who needed the supervision. It seems there was an office space that was provided just for this purpose, with toys for the kids to play with, etc. - in other words, a neutral location. Even then, I remember her saying there was a time or two when she was made a little nervous by the parent she was supervising.

So, I think as far as this particular caseworker, there probably wasn't anything she could have done to prevent this. However, I think having the supervised visits in the home is a HUGE mistake, and I think that would be the fault of the company she works for - hopefully they will change the policy and from now on have supervised visitation in a neutral location.
That is how our county handles supervised visits ... not in the home but at a neutral location. The DSS has comfortable, homey rooms set up for the visit and the case worker remains in the room with the parent and child. The room does have the two way mirror on the wall so a supervisor can view the visit if needed.

I worked with a lady and her husband had supervised visits. The daughter has a court appointed guardian ad litem that would pick her up and take her to the visit with her father. The guardian ad litem would turn her over to the case worker and wait on her. When the visit was over she returned the child to her mother.
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Old 02-10-2012, 09:24 PM
 
9,912 posts, read 9,301,860 times
Reputation: 8053
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
Are you honest to God serious?

You realize that it takes "probable cause" that someone has committed a crime to arrest them don't you? Sounds like you don't.

Ok....so let's get this straight. A five year old kid makes the statement "mommy was in the trunk". This is in your mind is probable cause to arrest someone and charge them with murder? I've got news for you. That alone would not be enough. I'm glad its not. Five year old kids are not the most accurate people in the world. If you have a problem with what I'm saying than you better stop pontificating about criminal justice. Its obviously not something your an "expert" in.

I'll remind you of something very elementary. The state gets one shot at trying anyone for a criminal offense. Its why murder investigations are often long and drawn out affairs that can last months--sometimes even years--without charges being filed. If you don't have probable cause you can't arrest someone. If you don't have proof beyond a reasonable doubt you can't convict them of a crime.

I realize this a heart-wrenching situation. All of us could imagine something similar happening to our own kids. Nevertheless, we don't get to ignore the law to reach the result that we want to reach.

Look we can wish 1000 X over that Josh Powell and his fruitcake father would burn in hell. It doesn't change a thing. When I read this over and over again, I wonder how grown up some of the people are here. Its not exactly a mature or sophisticated dialogue.

I know you said you were an attorney but I wonder if you have a heart. I realize you feel you are the "expert" here. Yes, we get on and pontificate but you don't have to read these posts then preach to us about the law, the constitution, appeals, evidence and the American Justice System.

We are plain ordinary people, dumb in your opinion, but I do know the constitution, most just don't like what is happening in our country today. Lisa Irwin, Ayla Reynolds, Aliayah Lunsford all babies just disappear from their beds ... Amir Jennings is gone ... Susan, Charles & Braden Powell dead ... Holly Bobo just disappears ... Michelle Parker, Kyron Horman, Haleigh Cummings, Sky Metalwala, Hailey Dunn, Sherry Arnold, ... and there are many many more.

By the time LE finds them which involves months or years (if ever) then we are subjected to years of investigations and gotta be sure and charge the right person. Gotta get all the evidence so more time is involved. I served one year on our Grand Jury ... I know what bringing the right evidence and proof before the Grand Jury involves to get an indictment ... the Grand Jury is the hoochie mama that determines if a case goes to trial or not and you better have the proof and evidence.

But we as members of this forum are not dumb as dirt as you assume ... we can voice our anger and dismay without you preaching Principles of Law 101 to us each time we are upset over the way a trial or murder transpires or a baby is abused or disappears.

And yes I know hoochie mama and gotta is not exactly "mature or sophisticated dialogue." I just can't see why you waste your time on this True Crime forum except to type your pompous replies.
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Old 02-10-2012, 09:36 PM
 
Location: tampa bay
6,587 posts, read 6,822,538 times
Reputation: 9856
I only know what has been reported that when police entered the Powell home after Susan was reported missing there were two fans blowing on a spot in the carpet (Utah during winter)...add to that the whole bizarro story given by Powell...I'm sorry common sense has to kick in and see that as probable cause...but justice has never been about the truth as much as it's about how a defense attorney can subvert the truth!!
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Old 02-10-2012, 09:50 PM
 
Location: 39 20' 59"N / 75 30' 53"W
16,085 posts, read 23,887,753 times
Reputation: 17982
Quote:
Originally Posted by njsocks View Post
Virgode: I just read this too! Awful!!! Why the heck wasn't the grandparents' lawyer able to be notified. OMG, so many loopholes --I could scream.
My question....Why weren't DCFS and the families attorney notified?

Two different states are a big factor.

Even if the paper trail is slow, Utah held onto this information for 2 years, theres no excuse.

IMO, A multitude of mistakes were made.
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Old 02-10-2012, 09:59 PM
 
Location: The Cascade Foothills
10,953 posts, read 8,684,903 times
Reputation: 6459
Quote:
Originally Posted by virgode View Post
My question....Why weren't DCFS and the families attorney notified?

Two different states are a big factor.

Even if the paper trail is slow, Utah held onto this information for 2 years, theres no excuse.

IMO, A multitude of mistakes were made.
I have a feeling there will be a number of policy changes in both Utah and Washington.

Unfortunately, too little, too late for these two little boys.

I see the Westboro Church crazies have decided not to protest the funeral.

[SIZE=2]http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/02/10/10374794-anti-gay-westboro-church-cancels-protest-at-powell-sons-funeral

Of course, the crazy daughter of the leader, with all the compassion of a "christian," tweeted this:

[/SIZE]
"imagine noisy mob Sat.raging in vain! Chuckle."
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Old 02-10-2012, 10:02 PM
 
Location: The Cascade Foothills
10,953 posts, read 8,684,903 times
Reputation: 6459
Quote:
Originally Posted by virgode View Post
My question....Why weren't DCFS and the families attorney notified?

Two different states are a big factor.

Even if the paper trail is slow, Utah held onto this information for 2 years, theres no excuse.

IMO, A multitude of mistakes were made.
I have a feeling there will be a number of policy changes in both Utah and Washington.

Unfortunately, too little, too late for these two little boys.

I see the Westboro Church crazies have decided not to protest the funeral.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/02/10/10374794-anti-gay-westboro-church-cancels-protest-at-powell-sons-funeral

Of course, the crazy daughter of the leader, with all the compassion of a "christian," tweeted this:

"imagine noisy mob Sat.raging in vain! Chuckle."
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