U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > True Crime
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 02-10-2012, 11:35 PM
 
9,911 posts, read 9,299,531 times
Reputation: 8048

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinebar View Post

I see the Westboro Church crazies have decided not to protest the funeral.
That is a group of nuts I wish a lightning bolt would strike.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-11-2012, 08:30 AM
 
9,182 posts, read 9,265,199 times
Reputation: 28754
Quote:
I know you said you were an attorney but I wonder if you have a heart. I realize you feel you are the "expert" here. Yes, we get on and pontificate but you don't have to read these posts then preach to us about the law, the constitution, appeals, evidence and the American Justice System.
I think these are reasonable comments given the way I often do post here. I'll start off by saying that one reason I do what I do is pure frustration. I constantly hear both on this forum (and IRL) the most ignorant and dumb comments about criminal justice. I am lead to believe from what I read that most people either (1) never took a Civics course in school; or (2) failed to absorb any of it because they were talking in class when the teacher lectured.

You ask if "I have a heart". My question for some others who post here is "do you have a brain?"

I'm not here for you or for some other people whose posts that I read. I recognize a hopeless cause when I see one. I post here because the comments I receive offline and the reputation points I get here tell me that there are some people who read this forum who understand the need to balance individual rights against public safety and arrive at a happy medium. That's really what the Founding Fathers intended. That's why a 222 year old document (the United States Constitution) is relevant today. I take this stuff seriously. I'm one of a handful of lawyers who has a copy of the Constitution on his wall at work with the Bill of Rights.


Quote:
We are plain ordinary people, dumb in your opinion, but I do know the constitution, most just don't like what is happening in our country today. Lisa Irwin, Ayla Reynolds, Aliayah Lunsford all babies just disappear from their beds ... Amir Jennings is gone ... Susan, Charles & Braden Powell dead ... Holly Bobo just disappears ... Michelle Parker, Kyron Horman, Haleigh Cummings, Sky Metalwala, Hailey Dunn, Sherry Arnold, ... and there are many many more.
Your recitation of these crimes obscures an important truth. The overall rate of violent crime in this country has dropped by two-thirds (66.6%) since the 1980's. Yet, you and some others carry on here as though its going to destroy mankind and the end of the world must be near. I have news for you. That system that you bemoan is actually working more often than not.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/24/us/24crime.html

I don't pretend that all is well. One murder, one rape, or one aggravated assault is one too many. However, realistically even Totalitarian and Fascist societies never completely eliminated violent crime. You just have to read your history to understand that.

I think there are too many shows in this country that cause a near hysteria on the part of the public that deal with crime. Nancy Grace is one of them. The ID channel on satellite t.v. is another. "Forty-Eight" hours used to be a news show that talked about all kinds of happenings. Now, from what I can tell its devoted entirely to crime. The reason so many people are convinced violent crime is the issue that it is (despite a 66.6% drop) is because of this media climate.


Quote:
But we as members of this forum are not dumb as dirt as you assume ... we can voice our anger and dismay without you preaching Principles of Law 101 to us each time we are upset over the way a trial or murder transpires or a baby is abused or disappears.
I overdo it at times, but its usually quite deliberate. You have to get people's attention to make a point. A surprising number of people who are what I will call "prominent posters" here are surprisingly ignorant on this forum when it comes to understanding anything about law. What many of you constantly fail to give recognition too is that the system not only fails to convict some guilty people, but it also falsely convicts innocent people. Imagine spending ten or more years on death row, coming within days of execution for a crime you never committed. Its happened more times in recent years than anyone really wants to think. I'm confident if we haven't done so already, we'll eventually end up executing one or more innocent people. The public outcry for the use of the death penalty is almost deafening.

Many people have read John Grisham novels. They should try reading a true story he wrote as well. I will suggest a book titled "The Innocent Man". If you take the time to read this story, you'll learn how the system in Oklahoma railroaded two innocent men to death row. A third man was railroaded to a life sentence. All three men were exonerated of their crimes by DNA evidence. If memory serves me, this occurred during the last stages of that long appeals process that you and others complain about.

This may be a sensitive subject for you, but I've alluded to it before. There are some states that because of their history with civil rights and discrimination ought to be more careful about their use of death penalty. The southern states don't exactly have an exemplary record when it comes to issues of race. Yet, these states tend to use the death penalty more and use it more commonly against minorities than states in the north do. If people truly want an outcome that is based on justice and fairness rather than on a "lynch mob" mentality, these states ought to wake up and take a hard look at what they are doing. The fact that they don't do so, speaks volumes in 2012.


Quote:
And yes I know hoochie mama and gotta is not exactly "mature or sophisticated dialogue." I just can't see why you waste your time on this True Crime forum except to type your pompous replies.
You haven't seen what people who lurk on this forum have written me privately. There is concern about the irresponsibility of what is said by many on this forum. I have some concerns about it as well. If you don't like my opinions than put me on ignore. I will continue to respond to some of the most irresponsible nonsense that I read here.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-11-2012, 12:55 PM
 
Location: 39 20' 59"N / 75 30' 53"W
16,085 posts, read 23,879,978 times
Reputation: 17982
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
You ask if "I have a heart". My question for some others who post here is "do you have a brain?"

I overdo it at times, but its usually quite deliberate.

You haven't seen what people who lurk on this forum have written me privately. There is concern about the irresponsibility of what is said by many on this forum.

I have some concerns about it as well. If you don't like my opinions than put me on ignore. I will continue to respond to some of the most irresponsible nonsense that I read here.
'Others'?

Do you realize you're coming across as a bully?

Everyone here values your contribution, simply point out the necessary correction and leave it at that.

Irresponsibility, by that do you mean misinformed? Deliberate? You do realize much of what is posted here comes directly from the media? An emotional response doesn't equate to irresponsibility.

As for the posters 'lurking' and contacting you. Whats their deal? Really.

I've read zingers here myself, such as the poster who commented on the Joran Van der Sloot case, stating the FBI was responsible for the Peruvian girls death.

As far as this particular thread. DCFS made mistakes, why is it so difficult for you to agree mistakes were made?

Last edited by virgode; 02-11-2012 at 01:04 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-11-2012, 02:38 PM
 
Location: 39 20' 59"N / 75 30' 53"W
16,085 posts, read 23,879,978 times
Reputation: 17982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinebar View Post
Does anyone know where Powell got his money? From what I understand, money issues had been a problem in his and Susan's marriage - there might have even been a bankruptcy.

I know he left the family home in Utah, but I thought I had heard it was in foreclosure, which would have prevented proceeds from sale.

He withdrew $7000.00 from his bank account the day before the murders but I've never even heard anything about him having a job.

If you go to the beginning of the thread, a link was posted about the court order. Josh and Steven Powell could no longer release contents of Susans 2000 pg personal diary.

Speculative, but perhaps Josh and his father were paid by the media and other sources.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-11-2012, 02:52 PM
 
Location: The Cascade Foothills
10,953 posts, read 8,682,415 times
Reputation: 6459
Quote:
Originally Posted by virgode View Post

Speculative, but perhaps Josh and his father were paid by the media and other sources.
That could be.

I know his attorney has said that he was representing Powell for free; I wonder if he knew about this money.

I've actually been kind of staying away from the family-related news stories the last couple of days because it is just so heartbreaking. Since this is a fairly local news story for me, I am sure there will be plenty of video of today's funeral on this evening's news.

I haven't heard of anyone stepping forward to claim Powell's body.

Edited to add: I usually watch Dateline on-line. Last night's show is about this tragedy; I haven't decided yet if I will watch it or not.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-11-2012, 03:38 PM
 
Location: 39 20' 59"N / 75 30' 53"W
16,085 posts, read 23,879,978 times
Reputation: 17982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinebar View Post
That could be.


I haven't heard of anyone stepping forward to claim Powell's body.
Theres a sister, maybe shes a half sister, not certain. She spoke out after her fathers arrest.

She and her children steered clear of him. I can't remember the exact words used, it seems she was aware of his problems growing up.

EDIT:Its possible there are no remains.

Last edited by virgode; 02-11-2012 at 03:47 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-11-2012, 04:19 PM
 
Location: SWFL
22,851 posts, read 19,286,589 times
Reputation: 21216
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
Are you honest to God serious?

You realize that it takes "probable cause" that someone has committed a crime to arrest them don't you? Sounds like you don't.

Ok....so let's get this straight. A five year old kid makes the statement "mommy was in the trunk". This is in your mind is probable cause to arrest someone and charge them with murder? I've got news for you. That alone would not be enough. I'm glad its not. Five year old kids are not the most accurate people in the world. If you have a problem with what I'm saying than you better stop pontificating about criminal justice. Its obviously not something your an "expert" in.

I'll remind you of something very elementary. The state gets one shot at trying anyone for a criminal offense. Its why murder investigations are often long and drawn out affairs that can last months--sometimes even years--without charges being filed. If you don't have probable cause you can't arrest someone. If you don't have proof beyond a reasonable doubt you can't convict them of a crime.

I realize this a heart-wrenching situation. All of us could imagine something similar happening to our own kids. Nevertheless, we don't get to ignore the law to reach the result that we want to reach.

Look we can wish 1000 X over that Josh Powell and his fruitcake father would burn in hell. It doesn't change a thing. When I read this over and over again, I wonder how grown up some of the people are here. Its not exactly a mature or sophisticated dialogue.
OMG...... I have a million things to say in response to this person but I'm so angry, I can't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarolinaWoman View Post
I know you said you were an attorney but I wonder if you have a heart. I realize you feel you are the "expert" here. Yes, we get on and pontificate but you don't have to read these posts then preach to us about the law, the constitution, appeals, evidence and the American Justice System.

We are plain ordinary people, dumb in your opinion, but I do know the constitution, most just don't like what is happening in our country today. Lisa Irwin, Ayla Reynolds, Aliayah Lunsford all babies just disappear from their beds ... Amir Jennings is gone ... Susan, Charles & Braden Powell dead ... Holly Bobo just disappears ... Michelle Parker, Kyron Horman, Haleigh Cummings, Sky Metalwala, Hailey Dunn, Sherry Arnold, ... and there are many many more.

By the time LE finds them which involves months or years (if ever) then we are subjected to years of investigations and gotta be sure and charge the right person. Gotta get all the evidence so more time is involved. I served one year on our Grand Jury ... I know what bringing the right evidence and proof before the Grand Jury involves to get an indictment ... the Grand Jury is the hoochie mama that determines if a case goes to trial or not and you better have the proof and evidence.

But we as members of this forum are not dumb as dirt as you assume ... we can voice our anger and dismay without you preaching Principles of Law 101 to us each time we are upset over the way a trial or murder transpires or a baby is abused or disappears.

And yes I know hoochie mama and gotta is not exactly "mature or sophisticated dialogue." I just can't see why you waste your time on this True Crime forum except to type your pompous replies.
Carolina, you and all us other immature, unsophisticated people keep right on talking and venting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishiis49 View Post
I only know what has been reported that when police entered the Powell home after Susan was reported missing there were two fans blowing on a spot in the carpet (Utah during winter)...add to that the whole bizarro story given by Powell...I'm sorry common sense has to kick in and see that as probable cause...but justice has never been about the truth as much as it's about how a defense attorney can subvert the truth!!
Why does it seem that common sense has no place in the judicial/LE systems?

Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
I think these are reasonable comments given the way I often do post here. I'll start off by saying that one reason I do what I do is pure frustration. I constantly hear both on this forum (and IRL) the most ignorant and dumb comments about criminal justice. I am lead to believe from what I read that most people either (1) never took a Civics course in school; or (2) failed to absorb any of it because they were talking in class when the teacher lectured.

You ask if "I have a heart". My question for some others who post here is "do you have a brain?"

I'm not here for you or for some other people whose posts that I read. I recognize a hopeless cause when I see one. I post here because the comments I receive offline and the reputation points I get here tell me that there are some people who read this forum who understand the need to balance individual rights against public safety and arrive at a happy medium. That's really what the Founding Fathers intended. That's why a 222 year old document (the United States Constitution) is relevant today. I take this stuff seriously. I'm one of a handful of lawyers who has a copy of the Constitution on his wall at work with the Bill of Rights.




Your recitation of these crimes obscures an important truth. The overall rate of violent crime in this country has dropped by two-thirds (66.6%) since the 1980's. Yet, you and some others carry on here as though its going to destroy mankind and the end of the world must be near. I have news for you. That system that you bemoan is actually working more often than not.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/24/us/24crime.html

I don't pretend that all is well. One murder, one rape, or one aggravated assault is one too many. However, realistically even Totalitarian and Fascist societies never completely eliminated violent crime. You just have to read your history to understand that.

I think there are too many shows in this country that cause a near hysteria on the part of the public that deal with crime. Nancy Grace is one of them. The ID channel on satellite t.v. is another. "Forty-Eight" hours used to be a news show that talked about all kinds of happenings. Now, from what I can tell its devoted entirely to crime. The reason so many people are convinced violent crime is the issue that it is (despite a 66.6% drop) is because of this media climate.




I overdo it at times, but its usually quite deliberate. You have to get people's attention to make a point. A surprising number of people who are what I will call "prominent posters" here are surprisingly ignorant on this forum when it comes to understanding anything about law. What many of you constantly fail to give recognition too is that the system not only fails to convict some guilty people, but it also falsely convicts innocent people. Imagine spending ten or more years on death row, coming within days of execution for a crime you never committed. Its happened more times in recent years than anyone really wants to think. I'm confident if we haven't done so already, we'll eventually end up executing one or more innocent people. The public outcry for the use of the death penalty is almost deafening.

Many people have read John Grisham novels. They should try reading a true story he wrote as well. I will suggest a book titled "The Innocent Man". If you take the time to read this story, you'll learn how the system in Oklahoma railroaded two innocent men to death row. A third man was railroaded to a life sentence. All three men were exonerated of their crimes by DNA evidence. If memory serves me, this occurred during the last stages of that long appeals process that you and others complain about.

This may be a sensitive subject for you, but I've alluded to it before. There are some states that because of their history with civil rights and discrimination ought to be more careful about their use of death penalty. The southern states don't exactly have an exemplary record when it comes to issues of race. Yet, these states tend to use the death penalty more and use it more commonly against minorities than states in the north do. If people truly want an outcome that is based on justice and fairness rather than on a "lynch mob" mentality, these states ought to wake up and take a hard look at what they are doing. The fact that they don't do so, speaks volumes in 2012.




You haven't seen what people who lurk on this forum have written me privately. There is concern about the irresponsibility of what is said by many on this forum. I have some concerns about it as well. If you don't like my opinions than put me on ignore. I will continue to respond to some of the most irresponsible nonsense that I read here.
You, sir and I use the term lightly, seem to be what most of us immature and unsophisticated people think of lawyers....snakes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasper12 View Post
Markg91359, since being a Mod, I have not had so many people report a post as being offensive, as yours. This forum is not "Harvard Law Review", it is people expressing their opinions regarding this case. We are all adults, and don't appreciate being talked down to. I am sure you are not as pretentious and arrogant as your above post sounds. Please work on being nicer to everyone. Because many people were offended by your post.

I appreciate your point of view, just don't offend every one. Thank you.
Thank you, Jasper but I think that fell on deaf ears.

Quote:
Originally Posted by virgode View Post
'Others'?

Do you realize you're coming across as a bully?

Everyone here values your contribution, simply point out the necessary correction and leave it at that.

Irresponsibility, by that do you mean misinformed? Deliberate? You do realize much of what is posted here comes directly from the media? An emotional response doesn't equate to irresponsibility.

As for the posters 'lurking' and contacting you. Whats their deal? Really.

I've read zingers here myself, such as the poster who commented on the Joran Van der Sloot case, stating the FBI was responsible for the Peruvian girls death.

As far as this particular thread. DCFS made mistakes, why is it so difficult for you to agree mistakes were made?
Snakes have no concept of right or wrong, Virgode.
__________________________________________________ _________________

I'm glad to see those hypocritical "christians" backed off their protest. If they hadn't, I betcha blood may have been shed. I can fully understand how a veteran's people would feel and this, IMO, would have stirred everyone's sensibilities. If I could afford it, I would have booked a cross country flight myself!

I get sicker and sicker, the more I hear about this story. Those poor little boys did not stand a chance from the get-go. The cards were stacked against them from the onset.

I know people say "How can God let stuff like this happen?" I believe God let it happen to save those two little boys from a lifetime of hell here on earth. They were innocents and now they are free from anything anyone could have done to them. People tend to forget that God gave us free will and that free will is what is wrong with so many of the human race. From the begining, we used our free will to gain "power" that Satan promised Eve. So Adam and Eve wrote it, so it has been since.

This is life on Earth, my fellow unsophisticates and immature peeps, we have to accept it but we sure can bellow as loud and long as we want about the psychos, sickos and just plain evil there is in this world with us, no matter what the snake says now.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-11-2012, 04:51 PM
 
Location: The Cascade Foothills
10,953 posts, read 8,682,415 times
Reputation: 6459
Quote:
Originally Posted by virgode View Post
Theres a sister, maybe shes a half sister, not certain. She spoke out after her fathers arrest.

She and her children steered clear of him. I can't remember the exact words used, it seems she was aware of his problems growing up.

EDIT:Its possible there are no remains.
I know there's a sister in Utah who was good friends with Susan and she's been very open from the get-go about what she thinks happened to Susan. She's also spoken out about her creepy father - I don't think she's had anything to do with him for years.

Apparently, there is another sister - I think here in Washington - that I wasn't aware of until just this past week. I'm not sure what her relationship is to her brother and father.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-11-2012, 05:44 PM
 
18,852 posts, read 31,698,893 times
Reputation: 26111
Let's focus this discussion on the case. Sadly, I watched the memorial for the two boys today.

Last edited by jasper12; 02-11-2012 at 08:42 PM.. Reason: edit
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-12-2012, 05:00 AM
 
Location: right here
4,131 posts, read 4,775,741 times
Reputation: 4868
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasper12 View Post
Let's focus this discussion on the case. Sadly, I watched the memorial for the two boys today.

This case really bothers me..I'm just hopeful the boys are with Susan now and in peace...

People can be upset with the justice system and at times I am as well.Everyone can be a "Monday Monring Quarterback" but I think the police didn't have enough evidence to arrest Josh, and unfortunatley in custody cases...well if you aren't convicted of murdering your spouse..you really cannot have your kids taken away-I read that if the judge in the custody hearing knew about the porn found on Joshs' computer, he wouldn't have granted visitation.

Also, what the media reports is not the whole story=I'm sure there is a lot we will not or never know about this case.

I just wonder if Susan ever saw any red flags and why she never told anyone...did it start with Josh's father?? Did she uncover something or did something happen and she was going to leave Josh?
We will probably never know-I just hope that Susan's family will be able to try and move on after this tragedy..and find some peace.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > True Crime
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top