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Old 02-12-2012, 04:08 PM
 
11,961 posts, read 12,853,422 times
Reputation: 2772

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Quote:
Originally Posted by virgode View Post
I still think Josh Powells father played a role in a triangle or 'mentally constructed triangle' contributing to Susan Powells death.

RIP Susan Powell and sons.
Agreed, but the other set of grandparents didn't see danger where it was either. It doesn't occur to honest people how murderers and thieves think, and so they wind up vulnerable for what amounts to be the crime of being virtuous in America. I have reason to believe Josh was blind to his own father and his motive for murdering his sons and himself was about shame that ran right through his core. What he had allowed himself to become that he couldn't bear to face. Like Bernie Madeoffs son committing suicide after spending so many years mindlessly tagging behind his Papa's misdeeds.

This misrepresentation system in our language has been going on longer than I've been around, but more obviously to me in the 60's during so much social upheaval. Therein lies the nutter arguments going back and forth between well intended hippies and well intended conservatives of that era. The media decided Charles Manson defined hippies, and decided religion was intrinsically evil. Truth is these labels were (and continue to be) equally blind to evil in plain sight. Therein lies a very painful lesson my Catholic faith is being tasked to learn. Don't close your eyes & bite your tongues, folks. We can't afford that indulgence.

Preventing victimization requires we all be educated & cultivate self defense (spiritually, psychologically, and physically). Preventing predators from getting by on murder requires an empowered legal/ LE system. When we continue to remain blind and ignorant about what evil looks like, predators get hired as CPS, lawyers, judges and cops.
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Old 02-12-2012, 04:15 PM
 
Location: SWFL
22,895 posts, read 19,331,879 times
Reputation: 21354
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
The people on this forum have the benefit of hindsight. The caseworkers, judges, and others did not.

Finally, I'm sure the 911 could have done a better job responding. However, given how quickly a house soaked with gasoline goes up in flames (explodes), I doubt that made any difference.
Maybe, maybe not but I still say baloney! That 911 operator should be suspended at the least for causing undue delay in that call. Under trained, under paid, uncaring people have been responsible for hundreds, if not thousands of avoidable deaths all over the country. Some of them have real attitudes. I don't care what facts the operator wants, if a Social Worker calls for help, it should be dispatched within seconds! I've made my share of 911 calls and all the questions those dispatchers ask can wait, except for name and location and what is needed, police, fire or rescue. Dispatch first, ask questions later. Time is of the essence, idiots!!!

Apparently the cops had the information for two years. I'd say that was enough time to get the ball rolling in the right direction! We have hindsight but we also have facts and evidence that was also available 2 years ago!!!!
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Old 02-12-2012, 04:40 PM
 
Location: Powdersville
126 posts, read 178,802 times
Reputation: 181
Wow...just started reading this thread...very lively! The truth, IMO, is that we need Defense Attorneys just as much as we need Prosecutors: and both need to be vigorous in their cause. As a non-professional, the only information I get from cases are what is published in the local paper, internet or on TV. The "facts" as they are presented in these outlets are many times given in a manner to sensationalize or to "sell copy". We have the "luxury" of hind-sight and with that it becomes easy (too easy) to judge the actions of another. I served as a Corrections Officer and I can say that after dealing with convicted felons all day, you begin to believe little to nothing of anything you hear. Dispatchers sift through all manner of calls daily, some serious and others not so serious. Hearing the call in the aftermath makes it easy for us to put into context. It does seem with the pleadings that the situation could have been handled better. I just ask that we not be so quick to indict all those who do a thankless job and many times they are given only seconds to assess and make a judgment call. To call them idiots is out of line. The facts can be the difference in sending a department's limited resources to a non-emergency call and a life or death situation. I am sure this case will help departments all across the country; that is my hope.
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Old 02-12-2012, 04:45 PM
 
Location: SWFL
22,895 posts, read 19,331,879 times
Reputation: 21354
"To call them idiots is out of line."

I can and will call "them" idiots whenever I please. I calls 'em as I sees 'em.
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Old 02-12-2012, 05:14 PM
 
11,961 posts, read 12,853,422 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
I have raised children myself and if anyone thinks I don't take what happened here very seriously they are quite mistaken. The flip side of this coin are the thousands/millions of parents, particularly fathers, involved in divorce and child custody cases right now. The system has to demand real proof, evidence of actual wrongdoing to protect all the parents involved in this process. Allegations of physical and sexual abuse of children are easily made. I have seen plenty of spiteful people in my day who were completely capable of inventing the worst lies and fabrications about an ex spouse. In laws can be just as bad and often are complicit in these matters.
Mark I can't rep you again so soon. I disagree with much of what you've said while you were wearing your frustrated lawyer hat but I agree with much of what you've said as a father & a soldier attempting to uphold the law (and civilization). I come from a family of LE, nurses, and social workers and am a veteran myself. I do empathize with what you intend to do, but the means by which the legal system goes about things leaves much to be desired. I don't have all the answers, nor do I expect perfection from anyone. I am not here to crucify you or lay blame on one group or another as the root of all evil. I do not demand clairvoyance from anyone, and cannot provide that service myself. I'm intent on getting to the root cause and effect keeping us all stuck on stupid.

To play devils advocate on behalf of those who are/ aren't ignorant of civics or projecting irrational expectations upon YOU personally- It's irrational for any legal system to become so complex that only experts would be empowered to navigate in a free society and still be in legal compliance, followed by the catch 22 of 'ignorance of the law is not an excuse'. The paranoia about FEMA camps isn't unfounded when the terms and conditions of existence have become so insanely untenable for it's citizens that they might as well be born in jail and be done with any delusion of self determination when they are emotionally and physically subjected by a deluge of propaganda 24/7 in every aspect of their lives. Listen again to occupiers and you'll hear this sense of being victimized/ held hostage by the very system they're compelled to uphold against their will.

Stand on this mountain with me a moment and see the bigger picture. There's a massive disconnect going on between SCOTUS, Congress, and main street America. I imagine you're sick of the nasty lawyer jokes, but please take the time to intellectually confront where that contempt is coming from. Is it truthful criticism or not? When courtrooms are overrun with 'professionals' who've made careers dodging responsibility, and aiding/abetting those intent on avoiding accountability, it's antithetical to the core mission of justice. Y'all make me swear on a Bible to tell the whole truth, and incredulously, commence to have lawyers ask deceitful questions, judges suppress the whole truth evidence, and the court officers holding me down to conform with the standards of what amounts to be professional predators. To main stream America the entire justice system is something to avoid at all costs. It serves and protects itself as a machine. Not people. Not Americans. Not the constitution.

I understand it's frustrating to listen to women in America equally blinded by things, but if you'll listen harder here is what is often being said by sincere feminists. From American Eve to American Adam; Dearest husband, you have forgotten why you ever took employment beguiled by the trickery of men. Wake up Adam. Wake up. Applicable to libs, cons, city mouse/ country mouse and all points in between.

Again, I'm not here to lay blame at anyones feet because no amount of projecting expectations of perfected Jesus upon you is going to make it so. That's unfair of any mortal to do to another. I'm here to say I'd like us all to do better and empower you to restore the integrity of your profession and for the rest of us to be equally empowered to uphold civilization from our end. It is team work and wars on collectivism are a misnomer for war on civilization/ order. I'd like to figure out a way to refrain from enabling retarded legislation that animates your job and we need your help to do it. This crazy train needs redirection and we all need to own the problem together as adults and forge a better way ahead. Together. Not as rivals engaged in negative competition or enabling predators to dictate the behavior of the masses.
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Old 02-12-2012, 05:18 PM
 
11,961 posts, read 12,853,422 times
Reputation: 2772
Quote:
Originally Posted by tamiznluv View Post
Maybe, maybe not but I still say baloney! That 911 operator should be suspended at the least for causing undue delay in that call. Under trained, under paid, uncaring people have been responsible for hundreds, if not thousands of avoidable deaths all over the country. Some of them have real attitudes. I don't care what facts the operator wants, if a Social Worker calls for help, it should be dispatched within seconds! I've made my share of 911 calls and all the questions those dispatchers ask can wait, except for name and location and what is needed, police, fire or rescue. Dispatch first, ask questions later. Time is of the essence, idiots!!!

Apparently the cops had the information for two years. I'd say that was enough time to get the ball rolling in the right direction! We have hindsight but we also have facts and evidence that was also available 2 years ago!!!!
You are demanding that all 911 dispatchers operate at the skill level of FBI and PhD experts in abnormal psychology but only want to pay them minimum wage. Then complain about taxes? Who has irrational expectations and demanding free lunch? Think, please.
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Old 02-12-2012, 05:29 PM
 
11,961 posts, read 12,853,422 times
Reputation: 2772
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarolinaWoman View Post
Average person here typing ... innocent people may go to jail ... but the guilty often walk free.

I am sure the majority of the average people posting on True Crime have no desire whatsoever to see an innocent person incarcerated.

As to the Powell case he is dead, his wife is dead and two beautiful little boys are dead. He killed them that is a fact ... perhaps there is no evidence that he killed Susan but he certainly is guilty of killing his two sons.

After Susan Powell disappeared her family was not allowed (by Josh) to see the two boys for over a year. After Josh moved in with his alleged (to meet your Law 101 requirements I am using alleged) perverted father that is when Susan's parents received custody of the two boys.

The case worker couldn't do one thing, Powell had his plan in place and carried it out. If whatever was on his computer had been handled in a different manner perhaps the outcome would be different ... but that is hindsight. I just hurt for Susan's family losing their daughter and grandsons.
I didn't start this thread in this forum because I was averse to getting held up by tabloid mentalities gawking at a human train wreck. I truly mean to figure out a way to prevent these types of situations going on in plain sight while all others are blind to it.

So, from a feminist/ religious/ citizen perspective, what is it that Susan Powell and many other women just like her are failing to learn? What is the proper response of a wife witnessing her husbands moral compass reeling out of control? What's the difference between mental illness and an adult disciplinary problem? Can we discern and teach that to families before they find themselves in way over their heads?
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Old 02-12-2012, 06:48 PM
 
Location: 39 20' 59"N / 75 30' 53"W
16,085 posts, read 23,920,956 times
Reputation: 17987
Quote:
Originally Posted by harborlady View Post

Agreed, but the other set of grandparents didn't see danger where it was either.

It doesn't occur to honest people how murderers and thieves think, and so they wind up vulnerable for what amounts to be the crime of being virtuous in America.

I have reason to believe Josh was blind to his own father and his motive for murdering his sons and himself was about shame that ran right through his core.

Preventing victimization requires we all be educated & cultivate self defense

Whether the grandparents did or didn't recognize the danger doesn't put them in a position to alter the events and outcome.

I don't believe Josh Powell or his father have any shame. Shame indicates theres a conscience. Sociopaths and evil have no conscience. Their only concern is the discovery of their maladjusted minds.
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Old 02-12-2012, 07:11 PM
 
Location: 39 20' 59"N / 75 30' 53"W
16,085 posts, read 23,920,956 times
Reputation: 17987
Quote:
Originally Posted by harborlady View Post
So, from a feminist/ religious/ citizen perspective,what is it that Susan Powell and many other women just like her are failing to learn?What is the proper response of a wife witnessing her husbands moral compass reeling out of control? What's the difference between mental illness and an adult disciplinary problem? Can we discern and teach that to families before they find themselves in way over their heads?
These women have a damaged personal history and gravitate to the familiar; control, abuse, and maladjusted individuals.

According to Susan Powells diary she was unhappy, suicidal as a teen, and abused by her parents. The parents deny the accusation, I question their honesty.

Theres no question what a women who sees her husbands moral compass going out of control should do....silence, never confront the situation, and make a plan to leave.
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Old 02-12-2012, 07:26 PM
 
9,917 posts, read 9,312,377 times
Reputation: 8058
Quote:
Originally Posted by harborlady View Post
I didn't start this thread in this forum because I was averse to getting held up by tabloid mentalities gawking at a human train wreck. I truly mean to figure out a way to prevent these types of situations going on in plain sight while all others are blind to it.

So, from a feminist/ religious/ citizen perspective, what is it that Susan Powell and many other women just like her are failing to learn? What is the proper response of a wife witnessing her husbands moral compass reeling out of control? What's the difference between mental illness and an adult disciplinary problem? Can we discern and teach that to families before they find themselves in way over their heads?
I don't have a tabloid mentality but I have spent a great deal of volunteer time in a local Abused and Battered Shelter. At that time I even included my high school daughters to visit the shelter and read stories or just play with young children there in the shelter with their mothers.

I have seen women with teeth knocked out, arms, fingers, noses and other bones broken in their bodies, black eyes ... perhaps not the life Susan Powell was leading but who knows? Mental abuse can be bad too but no one knows what was happening in the Powell household.

I do know when I volunteered at the shelter, no amount of counseling, encouragement, offers of relocation to another state would stop 99% of the females along with their children from returning to that husband or boyfriend.

My middle daughter loved to help the children with homework and play games with the little ones. She would see the abused women and the children would tell her things that happened at home. She graduated from college and went to work at a local hospital. She got married and it seemed all was right with the world.

Into the marriage I would notice bruises on her arms ... there was always an excuse. It took three years of marriage and we were on vacation, she was checking on our house while we were gone. She called and told us she was going to stay at our house a few days as he was moving out. She said she couldn't take it anymore. Concerned we cut the vacation short and returned home.

If she had something for supper he didn't like he would throw the food at her along with his plate. He would grab both arms and shake her (bruises on the arms!) When she told us just some of the things I could not believe my daughter that did volunteer work at an Abused Shelter and was raised in a home with no violence would live in that for three years.

So how is it taught?
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