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Old 09-25-2011, 05:51 PM
Status: "Be yourself. What's the alternative?" (set 15 days ago)
 
8,675 posts, read 10,828,629 times
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There was a case where a woman, can't remember her name, took in a teenaged girl to care for her--dad dropped her off I think or something like that. They starved, beat her, etc. and she got her kids to do it, they eventually killed her, carved things in her chest. Forgot the name, but if there's a hel*, they'll all be in the front row waiting for their ticket in.
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Old 09-25-2011, 05:55 PM
 
Location: tampa bay
6,587 posts, read 6,818,941 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix lady View Post
I know what you mean. I think Susan Smith was mentally ill, too--she just doesn't look "right" at all and think she had major mental illness, although not an excuse for sure.
There was a Canadian couple I saw it on one of the TV shows, a made for TV movie, wow, what horrible creatures they were. 2 teenagers they killed. He raped and killed them and she watched. I had to turn it off--too much.
I think she even watched him rape and kill her younger sister...Evil!!
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Old 09-25-2011, 06:03 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 30,721,001 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix lady View Post
I know what you mean. I think Susan Smith was mentally ill, too--she just doesn't look "right" at all and think she had major mental illness, although not an excuse for sure.
There was a Canadian couple I saw it on one of the TV shows, a made for TV movie, wow, what horrible creatures they were. 2 teenagers they killed. He raped and killed them and she watched. I had to turn it off--too much.
I don't think I could have watched that either.

I don't get moms who kill but I have to admit that motherhood can be trying and I can see someone who is not bonded to their kids who lacks a moral compass just deciding to get rid of them if they see them in the way. If you're narcissitic enough, you might think "I brought them into this world so I can take them out" and convince yourself that it's no different than having had an abortion before they were born. Usually, they are not tortured before they are killed like victims are when killers are preying on strangers.

I'm not excusing Susan Smith, et. al. but they're only a threat to their kids not society in general and they don't get pleasure out of torturing and killing. They just want to eliminate their kids because they're in the way. It's more not caring than wanting to see pain and suffering. It's as if thier kids are a toy they've tired of and outgrown and they need to find a way to dispose of them.

I'd like to add Andrea Yates husband to this list. I know he's not a woman but if he hadn't pushed poor Andrea so hard and left her alone with the kids, she never would have killed her kids. He deserves to be locked up.
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Old 09-25-2011, 06:07 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishiis49 View Post
I think she even watched him rape and kill her younger sister...Evil!!
I remember that case. Absolutely sick.
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Old 09-25-2011, 06:08 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 30,721,001 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix lady View Post
There was a case where a woman, can't remember her name, took in a teenaged girl to care for her--dad dropped her off I think or something like that. They starved, beat her, etc. and she got her kids to do it, they eventually killed her, carved things in her chest. Forgot the name, but if there's a hel*, they'll all be in the front row waiting for their ticket in.
Yeah that one ranks right up there too. Sick.
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Old 09-25-2011, 06:37 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
18,633 posts, read 23,219,501 times
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My definition of true evil is closely linked with moral depravity and sadism,

Did the woman kill her victim quickly, or did she intentionally want them to suffer for a period of time? If torture is involved, I view the person as evil.

What was the method of murder? Compared to some ways to die, a gunshot is relatively quick.
Slower methods such as burning, starving, drowning and beating are NOT only used to kill, but to provide perverse entertainment to the killer.

If the person kills knowing that the death will be slow and agonizing, but does not care, that's depraved indifference. That is evil, but to me, not as evil as inflicting pain and emotional suffering
that brings pleasure to the killer.

Did the perpetrator demoralize the victim, debase or humiliate them prior to, or during the killing?
'This, at least for my self, adds yet another layer of depravity and evil to the murderer.

With that in mind, here is my list:

1. Gertrude Banizewski - Charged with the torture murder of 16 year old Sylvia Likens in Indianapolis Indiana in 1965. Sylvia along with her younger sister 15 yr. old Jenni, were boarders at the Baniszewski house hold. Baniszewski had six children of her own.
She enlisted several of her older children in the grizzly and heartless murder of Sylvia over a period of three months. Violence and indignities Sylvia was forced to endure before her death include but are not limited to merciless and relentless beatings, the administration of scalding baths,starvation, burning with cigarets and matches, forcing her to dance naked and to insert a coke bottle inside of her, rubbing salt in wounds, forcing fer to eat her own vomit and to eat feces, branding and tattooing her torso with the words "I am a Prostitute and Proud of It!"

In fact, the coroners report found that Sylvia Likens was in all probability, a virgin at the time of death, while Baniszewski's own daughter was pregnant by a married man, and she herself had become pregnant with a younger man.

Death finally came in the form of a head injury administered by her daughter's boy friend using a large thick wooden board, he it her across the head with it resulting in a subdural hematoma.

After her conviction she showed no remorse. She also attempted to say that her children and the neighborhood children had done all of this on their own, while she was in the house.

While in jail she told anyone who would listen that Sylvia "needed someone to teach her a lesson"

2. Theresa Knorr - California woman who is responsible for the death of two of her daughters. She also enlisted the help of her sons in the killings. The victims were starved, locked in the closet, beaten not permitted to use the bathroom, denied fluid, and tortured.

One of her daughters was still alive when she was burned to death.

3. Elisa Baker - Responsible for the murder of her step-daughter Zahra Baker in Hickory NC last year.
Zahra was a cancer survivor who wore hearing aids as a result of chemotherapy and had a prosthetic leg following amputation. Elisa would force Zahra to walk for long periods of time up hill, while Elisa hurled insults at her. Zahra was locked in her room, at one point lived in an attic and not permitted to attend school. She was seldom seen by outsiders but when she was, she was often bruised and battered. The 10 year old girl was terrified of his father's wife and pleaded to stay at a neighbors house.
The exact cause or method of murder is unknown (as far as I know) but after her death little Zahara's body was fed to a wood chipper, and the parts spread around the countryside.
Her head was never recovered.

In addition, Elisa Baker was a thief, a bigamist, and a con artist.

4. Susan Smith - enough said.

5 I can't think of the name of this woman, but I read a book about it. A Florida step mother who relentlessly beat, ridiculed and humiliated her 9 or 10 year old stepson. He was kept home from school to sleep, forced to eat on the floor out of a dog bowl, and forced to run down the street naked in front of neighbors as "punishment" She finally drowned him in the swimming pool.

If anyone knows the name of this last monster, let me know. Her name should live on in infamy.
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Old 09-25-2011, 06:54 PM
 
1,677 posts, read 2,056,854 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
My definition of true evil is closely linked with moral depravity and sadism,

Did the woman kill her victim quickly, or did she intentionally want them to suffer for a period of time? If torture is involved, I view the person as evil.

What was the method of murder? Compared to some ways to die, a gunshot is relatively quick.
Slower methods such as burning, starving, drowning and beating are NOT only used to kill, but to provide perverse entertainment to the killer.

If the person kills knowing that the death will be slow and agonizing, but does not care, that's depraved indifference. That is evil, but to me, not as evil as inflicting pain and emotional suffering
that brings pleasure to the killer.

Did the perpetrator demoralize the victim, debase or humiliate them prior to, or during the killing?
'This, at least for my self, adds yet another layer of depravity and evil to the murderer.

With that in mind, here is my list:

1. Gertrude Banizewski - Charged with the torture murder of 16 year old Sylvia Likens in Indianapolis Indiana in 1965. Sylvia along with her younger sister 15 yr. old Jenni, were boarders at the Baniszewski house hold. Baniszewski had six children of her own.
She enlisted several of her older children in the grizzly and heartless murder of Sylvia over a period of three months. Violence and indignities Sylvia was forced to endure before her death include but are not limited to merciless and relentless beatings, the administration of scalding baths,starvation, burning with cigarets and matches, forcing her to dance naked and to insert a coke bottle inside of her, rubbing salt in wounds, forcing fer to eat her own vomit and to eat feces, branding and tattooing her torso with the words "I am a Prostitute and Proud of It!"

In fact, the coroners report found that Sylvia Likens was in all probability, a virgin at the time of death, while Baniszewski's own daughter was pregnant by a married man, and she herself had become pregnant with a younger man.

Death finally came in the form of a head injury administered by her daughter's boy friend using a large thick wooden board, he it her across the head with it resulting in a subdural hematoma.

After her conviction she showed no remorse. She also attempted to say that her children and the neighborhood children had done all of this on their own, while she was in the house.

While in jail she told anyone who would listen that Sylvia "needed someone to teach her a lesson"

2. Theresa Knorr - California woman who is responsible for the death of two of her daughters. She also enlisted the help of her sons in the killings. The victims were starved, locked in the closet, beaten not permitted to use the bathroom, denied fluid, and tortured.

One of her daughters was still alive when she was burned to death.

3. Elisa Baker - Responsible for the murder of her step-daughter Zahra Baker in Hickory NC last year.
Zahra was a cancer survivor who wore hearing aids as a result of chemotherapy and had a prosthetic leg following amputation. Elisa would force Zahra to walk for long periods of time up hill, while Elisa hurled insults at her. Zahra was locked in her room, at one point lived in an attic and not permitted to attend school. She was seldom seen by outsiders but when she was, she was often bruised and battered. The 10 year old girl was terrified of his father's wife and pleaded to stay at a neighbors house.
The exact cause or method of murder is unknown (as far as I know) but after her death little Zahara's body was fed to a wood chipper, and the parts spread around the countryside.
Her head was never recovered.

In addition, Elisa Baker was a thief, a bigamist, and a con artist.

4. Susan Smith - enough said.

5 I can't think of the name of this woman, but I read a book about it. A Florida step mother who relentlessly beat, ridiculed and humiliated her 9 or 10 year old stepson. He was kept home from school to sleep, forced to eat on the floor out of a dog bowl, and forced to run down the street naked in front of neighbors as "punishment" She finally drowned him in the swimming pool.

If anyone knows the name of this last monster, let me know. Her name should live on in infamy.

Your #5 is Jessica Swartz, if it's the same case I think you're referring to. The little boy's name was Andrew "AJ" Swartz. I forget the time and place, but I do remember it was in Florida and there is a book about the case called No Once Can Hurt Him Anymore. Yeah, that lady should be shoveling coal in hell.

Another one is that woman who adopted the three year old boy in the 70's, tortured and killed him, then his biological mother found out he was dead and what happened to him years later. I don't remember the name of the witch who killed him, but the little boy's name is Dennis Jurgens, and there is a book about that case, as well as a Lifetime movie. Absolutely heartbreaking.
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Old 09-25-2011, 07:36 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
18,633 posts, read 23,219,501 times
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AnnaNomos, thank you for filling me in! Yes that book "No One Can Hurt Him Anymore" stuck with me. I cried. I agree Jessica Swartz should have a nice job awaiting her in hell when she dies.
Do you remember how long her sentence is? I am assuming, HOPING that she is still in jail.

I also think the Jurgens woman was evil and that book, and the horrible pain that little boy must have endured stayed with me for so long! I could not believe her clueless - or equally evil husband who let all of this go on. I think the book is "Murder In White Lake" I think it took place in Minnesota.

They all make me angry! But these premeditated, drawn out, and violent cases really make me a believer in evil!

What also bothers me, is how some cases are "orphaned" and not spoken about, while others, such as A.J. Swartz and more recently Zahara Baker do not get much attention. I have my theories but I would go off topic.
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Old 09-25-2011, 07:49 PM
 
Location: New York, NY, USA
452 posts, read 769,169 times
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Default Darlie Routier

I read the book by Patricia Springer. Darlie Routier is on my list. Read below.



Darlie Routier - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 09-25-2011, 08:20 PM
 
Location: Native Floridian, USA
4,904 posts, read 6,114,227 times
Reputation: 6110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Houston3 View Post
My ex-wife....
I know this is a serious subject, and the opening posts on the thread are heartbreaking but, I did LOL at this......
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