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Old 11-27-2011, 12:06 PM
 
Location: Bangkok, NYC, and LV
2,037 posts, read 2,553,727 times
Reputation: 1128

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We need to do something to reform our sexual assault laws. Unless there is corroborating evidence, I think rape charges should not be brought:


Va. family still suffers effects of guilty plea to rape that never happened - The Washington Post


They believed that their son was innocent but were afraid that Virginia’s penal system would grab hold of him and never let go.

So Cherri Dulaney and Edgar Coker Sr. told 15-year-old Edgar Jr. to plead guilty to raping a 14-year-old friend. Their court-appointed attorney told them that was better than risking adult charges and a lengthy prison term.


Two months after their decision, in November 2007, the girl admitted that she had lied.

The Cokers have been fighting ever since to rescue their son from the consequences. He served 17 months in a juvenile prison. He remains on the Virginia sex-offender registry, and the family moved to avoid harassment from neighbors.

Last month, Coker, now 20, was arrested during a Friday night football game at the Orange, Va., high school he graduated from after his release from juvenile prison. Unless they have permission from the school, convicted violent sex offenders are not permitted on school grounds. But Coker had received such permission, and he attended school there for more than a year before graduation.
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Old 11-27-2011, 07:33 PM
 
Location: Chambersburg PA
1,739 posts, read 1,759,744 times
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Yes, we really do need reform in this type of thing and much harsher penalties for those who falsely accuse. It does no one any good to let this type of thing slide by. it uses limited resources and is a slap in the face, to real victims.
Stats show as many as 1 in 4 rape accusations are false. It causes not just the accused but their families and loved ones much heartache and financial hardship, and often destroys families. False accusations IMO are just as heinous, if not more so, than the crime that's being accused
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Old 11-27-2011, 09:55 PM
 
Location: Earth
17,446 posts, read 23,948,037 times
Reputation: 7271
Quote:
Originally Posted by faeryedark View Post
Yes, we really do need reform in this type of thing and much harsher penalties for those who falsely accuse. It does no one any good to let this type of thing slide by. it uses limited resources and is a slap in the face, to real victims.
Stats show as many as 1 in 4 rape accusations are false. It causes not just the accused but their families and loved ones much heartache and financial hardship, and often destroys families. False accusations IMO are just as heinous, if not more so, than the crime that's being accused
The sentence for making a false rape report should be similar to that for rape.

That would drastically reduce false rape reports.
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Old 11-28-2011, 01:35 AM
 
10,139 posts, read 23,285,913 times
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Other than our Victorian sensibilities on the subject, a rape is really no different than any serious physical assault. A man can give an innocent victim a beating breaking bones and inflicting permanent physical injuries and serve a few months in county jail. But a rape assault with only psychological injuries can easily bring 15 years of penitentiary time and a lifetime of registration as a sex predator. I'm not encouraging or minimizing rape or any other serious physical assault but the penalties need to be normalized. As a man, I am offended that the loss of my vision, mobility or thinking capacity is not on par with an invasion of a woman's privates.
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Old 11-28-2011, 07:21 AM
 
Location: Chambersburg PA
1,739 posts, read 1,759,744 times
Reputation: 1464
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilson513 View Post
Other than our Victorian sensibilities on the subject, a rape is really no different than any serious physical assault. A man can give an innocent victim a beating breaking bones and inflicting permanent physical injuries and serve a few months in county jail. But a rape assault with only psychological injuries can easily bring 15 years of penitentiary time and a lifetime of registration as a sex predator. I'm not encouraging or minimizing rape or any other serious physical assault but the penalties need to be normalized. As a man, I am offended that the loss of my vision, mobility or thinking capacity is not on par with an invasion of a woman's privates.
I'm a woman, and I totally agree. I think our society helps to make perpetual victims. of course, there's money in it for some too.
I was molested as a kid. It sucked and caused some issues, but guess what? I got over it. I didn't have people around me who kept me in "victim" mode. people become what they tell themselves they are. So, if you keep saying you're a victim, you become that, and stay that way. If you tell yourself, you're a survivor, an overcomer, and a conquerer ...that's what you will be.
I'd much rather be the latter
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Old 11-28-2011, 03:14 PM
 
Location: Bangkok, NYC, and LV
2,037 posts, read 2,553,727 times
Reputation: 1128
hmm, women are weak and should be protected. but they should not abuse this status.

I say: unless there is corroboration of a rape charge it should not be brought...no more he said she said.

women need to be extra vigilant and simply not put themselves in potential date rape/drunk situations.
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Old 11-28-2011, 10:37 PM
 
9,191 posts, read 9,269,502 times
Reputation: 28794
Quote:
hmm, women are weak and should be protected. but they should not abuse this status.

I say: unless there is corroboration of a rape charge it should not be brought...no more he said she said.

women need to be extra vigilant and simply not put themselves in potential date rape/drunk situations.
I say that every case is different and you can't have a hard and fast rule.

First of all what do you mean by "corroboration"? Does it mean:

1. Another witness must have seen it;
2. The woman reports the crime wearing a torn pair of pants and has blood on her cheeks;
3. There must be bruising; or
4. What else?

Most sexual predators will look for a time where they are alone with a woman and so there will be no witnesses. I had a friend who was a real estate agent showing homes to a man and she made the mistake of trusting him and being by herself. He weighed about 200 lbs and she weighs a little over a 100 lbs. There wasn't much she could do to stop him, once he knocked her down and got on top of her. I don't think she had a single bruise. It was simply a question of brute force on his part.

DNA testing can prove that sex occurred. It doesn't prove whether it was voluntary or not and this is the typical defense to rape, i.e., the sex was voluntary.

I don't believe a prosecutor should file rape charges simply because a woman (or anyone else) alleges rape. However, at the same time, I think by demanding "corroboration" in every single case you might prevent the prosecution of thousands of guilty men.

The solution is heavy scrutiny of each case. Has the woman made similar charges in the past? What is her overall credibility? Does she have a criminal record? What has she been charged/convicted of? Was it a crime involving dishonesty? It is a situation involving a total stranger or someone the woman knows? Can it be proven that sex actually occurred with the person charged through DNA evidence or in some other manner? How good of an overall memory does the woman have?

I would suggest in each situation that the woman be asked to give several statements. Each statement can be weighed against the others and the consistency of her overall story can be carefully evaluated.

A prosecutor should have absolute discretion not to pursue a case if he personally doesn't believe the victim's story or if he believes a conviction is unlikely. The victim shouldn't be able to override his decision.

However, if everything checks out, I think it maybe very reasonable to try a rape case based solely on the woman's testimony.
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Old 11-29-2011, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Bangkok, NYC, and LV
2,037 posts, read 2,553,727 times
Reputation: 1128
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
I say that every case is different and you can't have a hard and fast rule.

First of all what do you mean by "corroboration"? Does it mean:

1. Another witness must have seen it;
2. The woman reports the crime wearing a torn pair of pants and has blood on her cheeks;
3. There must be bruising; or
4. What else?

Most sexual predators will look for a time where they are alone with a woman and so there will be no witnesses. I had a friend who was a real estate agent showing homes to a man and she made the mistake of trusting him and being by herself. He weighed about 200 lbs and she weighs a little over a 100 lbs. There wasn't much she could do to stop him, once he knocked her down and got on top of her. I don't think she had a single bruise. It was simply a question of brute force on his part.

DNA testing can prove that sex occurred. It doesn't prove whether it was voluntary or not and this is the typical defense to rape, i.e., the sex was voluntary.

I don't believe a prosecutor should file rape charges simply because a woman (or anyone else) alleges rape. However, at the same time, I think by demanding "corroboration" in every single case you might prevent the prosecution of thousands of guilty men.

The solution is heavy scrutiny of each case. Has the woman made similar charges in the past? What is her overall credibility? Does she have a criminal record? What has she been charged/convicted of? Was it a crime involving dishonesty? It is a situation involving a total stranger or someone the woman knows? Can it be proven that sex actually occurred with the person charged through DNA evidence or in some other manner? How good of an overall memory does the woman have?

I would suggest in each situation that the woman be asked to give several statements. Each statement can be weighed against the others and the consistency of her overall story can be carefully evaluated.

A prosecutor should have absolute discretion not to pursue a case if he personally doesn't believe the victim's story or if he believes a conviction is unlikely. The victim shouldn't be able to override his decision.

However, if everything checks out, I think it maybe very reasonable to try a rape case based solely on the woman's testimony.
Hard and fast rules are difficult, but, in essence: no more date rape type of allegations. In many countries, it's common knowledge to not go to a man's home unless you expect to have sex.

No more drunken allegations. DO not get drunk with men in a private setting.

I am not in favor of putting victim's on trial. A woman's personal history should be largely irrelevant--sans prior false accusations--when determining to file charges. People with shady backgrounds often do shady things with shady people and have poor judgement; this does not mean they can't be assaulted.
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Old 11-29-2011, 01:31 PM
 
51,912 posts, read 41,783,059 times
Reputation: 32384
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
I say that every case is different and you can't have a hard and fast rule.

First of all what do you mean by "corroboration"? Does it mean:

1. Another witness must have seen it;
2. The woman reports the crime wearing a torn pair of pants and has blood on her cheeks;
3. There must be bruising; or
4. What else?

Most sexual predators will look for a time where they are alone with a woman and so there will be no witnesses. I had a friend who was a real estate agent showing homes to a man and she made the mistake of trusting him and being by herself. He weighed about 200 lbs and she weighs a little over a 100 lbs. There wasn't much she could do to stop him, once he knocked her down and got on top of her. I don't think she had a single bruise. It was simply a question of brute force on his part.

DNA testing can prove that sex occurred. It doesn't prove whether it was voluntary or not and this is the typical defense to rape, i.e., the sex was voluntary.

I don't believe a prosecutor should file rape charges simply because a woman (or anyone else) alleges rape. However, at the same time, I think by demanding "corroboration" in every single case you might prevent the prosecution of thousands of guilty men.

The solution is heavy scrutiny of each case. Has the woman made similar charges in the past? What is her overall credibility? Does she have a criminal record? What has she been charged/convicted of? Was it a crime involving dishonesty? It is a situation involving a total stranger or someone the woman knows? Can it be proven that sex actually occurred with the person charged through DNA evidence or in some other manner? How good of an overall memory does the woman have?

I would suggest in each situation that the woman be asked to give several statements. Each statement can be weighed against the others and the consistency of her overall story can be carefully evaluated.

A prosecutor should have absolute discretion not to pursue a case if he personally doesn't believe the victim's story or if he believes a conviction is unlikely. The victim shouldn't be able to override his decision.

However, if everything checks out, I think it maybe very reasonable to try a rape case based solely on the woman's testimony.
I hope they fried the guy that raped her. Really bizarre, did he plan the whole thing and give a false name or just snap?

Nice thing about dna evidence is when they catch a guy finally and can tie 6-7 rapes to him.....that helps slam the door on his cell instead of just being a first offense type scenario.

They did that recently around here after catching a serial rapist.
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