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Old 06-19-2012, 06:15 AM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamofmonterey View Post
OP, interesting thread.

My uncle was in Vietnam and had PTSD, in theory everyone can say, yes I could kill, but I think in actual practice would be another story. Any person with a conscience would have to live with that on their mind, day and night.

A sociopath would not be affected, of course , as they are born without a conscience. They can kill even as teenagers and think nothing of it.

Anyone who is spiritual or even believes in karma, I think it would
I am not sure if it is a matter of belief only. There is a saying involving 'being in touch with yourself'. It may be that our actions in life have an imprint on an element of our being, but some individuals are just out of touch with that aspect of their being. Until they die, maybe, when the akashic records are read and we do our life review.

Good analysts increase a person's awareness of the repercussions of our actions on others, but this may be a reality whether we are aware of it or not.
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Old 06-19-2012, 08:33 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamofmonterey View Post
OP, interesting thread.

My uncle was in Vietnam and had PTSD, in theory everyone can say, yes I could kill, but I think in actual practice would be another story.
Just be aware, the support troops vs combat ratio in Vietnam is the same as it is now - 10 to 1. There is a 90% chance that any one individual served in Vietnam never saw one bit of combat. A very small percentage of troops in the war zone did the actual fighting.
I am not saying that does'nt apply to your uncle, who still bravely served whatever his role was, I am saying human nature is to blame human weaknesses and flaws on conditions that do not exist.
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Old 06-19-2012, 12:50 PM
 
Location: Old Town Alexandria
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[quote=goldengrain;24807904]I am not sure if it is a matter of belief only. There is a saying involving 'being in touch with yourself'. It may be that our actions in life have an imprint on an element of our being, but some individuals are just out of touch with that aspect of their being. Until they die, maybe, when the akashic records are read and we do our life review.



DD217, he was on the front lines, saying "most weren't in 'real combat' " doesnt apply here. He also rarely talked about it, but we saw slides he had, and it was not pretty. It made "Platoon" look mild. JMO, but alot of people discount psychological trauma in vets, I find this disturbing.

goldengrain, what are akashic records, is it similar to karma?
I agree also with alot of above posters, who mention that people in law enforcement (some, not all) know what is expected, but after killing someone, it probably has unexpected repercussions. For people with a conscience, at least.
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Old 06-19-2012, 05:43 PM
 
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I am against capital punishment and for life w/o parole.

I feel capital punishment is pure revenge and life w/parole is punishment , citizen protection, and not revenge per se
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Old 06-20-2012, 02:30 AM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
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I would think a lot of the older generation who went to war would have this experience. Each would cope with it in their own way - I'm sure some wouldn't think twice about killing in wartime (because it's 'justified' and expected of you) but it would definitely haunt some, even if it was the enemy it's still a human being.

I just feel it's wrong for the state to make someone kill like that. If I were drafted to go to Vietnam I'd have definitely burned by card and gone to jail.
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Old 06-20-2012, 04:04 AM
 
Location: Tucson/Nogales
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If the one to be executed encouraged me to do it, it would be far easier. If he said something like: I'm in my 50's, been in prison most of my life, even if I did get out my life would be a living hell and I'd probably end up committing suicide. Now that would make it easier, like a mercy killing.

Any number of people are "executed" everyday, via automobiles, like running over a pedestrian "who was in the wrong and you were in the right". I read a book about the emotional impact of these type of "executions" and, innocent as you may have been, the effects can be equally damaging/haunting.
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Old 06-20-2012, 05:29 PM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
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[quote=dreamofmonterey;24813667]
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldengrain View Post
I am not sure if it is a matter of belief only. There is a saying involving 'being in touch with yourself'. It may be that our actions in life have an imprint on an element of our being, but some individuals are just out of touch with that aspect of their being. Until they die, maybe, when the akashic records are read and we do our life review.



DD217, he was on the front lines, saying "most weren't in 'real combat' " doesnt apply here. He also rarely talked about it, but we saw slides he had, and it was not pretty. It made "Platoon" look mild. JMO, but alot of people discount psychological trauma in vets, I find this disturbing.

goldengrain, what are akashic records, is it similar to karma?
I agree also with alot of above posters, who mention that people in law enforcement (some, not all) know what is expected, but after killing someone, it probably has unexpected repercussions. For people with a conscience, at least.
Well, many religions state that after we die we do a life review. I think Catholics say something about our sins being reviewed at that time. Other disciplines say we do a 'live through' of the other person's grief that we caused them while alive. We stand in their shoes and feel what they felt and have full realization of the damage that we did. We do this through access to the 'akashic' record of our lives. Some mystical groups, like the Theosophists, believe in this. The records are supposed to contain an imprint of the history of the world.

I think evolved beings of any religion, atheists too, who are more sensitive of others are probably keying into something of these records which is helping them to lead a better life.
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Old 06-20-2012, 06:49 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldengrain View Post

Well, many religions state that after we die we do a life review. I think Catholics say something about our sins being reviewed at that time. Other disciplines say we do a 'live through' of the other person's grief that we caused them while alive. We stand in their shoes and feel what they felt and have full realization of the damage that we did. We do this through access to the 'akashic' record of our lives. Some mystical groups, like the Theosophists, believe in this. The records are supposed to contain an imprint of the history of the world.

I think evolved beings of any religion, atheists too, who are more sensitive of others are probably keying into something of these records which is helping them to lead a better life.
That sounds so sad but I would see the point of such a review.
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Old 06-21-2012, 06:02 PM
 
Location: In a house
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldengrain View Post
In the New Testament followers are told not to extract an eye for an eye, but if someone strikes you, to turn the other cheek.

I am not saying not to punish offenders, but also to counsel them to try to help those who can be helped. Generally violence begats violence. With the weapons of the world today, would not it be wiser to talk rather than act? Are we not civilized?
In some cases talking is effective. But would you try to reason with a man raping your child or wife? Generally violence begets violence but if we let things run their course unjustifiable violence begets justifiable violence. In other words you get attacked and suffer unjustifiable violence and react violently saving yourself with justifiable violence. Jesus said turn the other cheek, thats true, but I dont believe he wanted us to lie down & die at the hands of any attacker. Theres a difference between walking away from a fight and fighting back when you need to or to prevent a bigger tragedy. Jesus also said that people should get their swords & if they didnt have one to pound their plowshares into swords. Nothing is so simple that we can say violence is never ok or killing is never ok. Being civilized means not tolerating unjustified violence or crime in our society. There is nothing civilized about turning the other cheek & letting our fellow man be victimized.
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Old 06-23-2012, 04:09 PM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,408 posts, read 16,471,196 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin Knocker View Post
In some cases talking is effective. But would you try to reason with a man raping your child or wife? Generally violence begets violence but if we let things run their course unjustifiable violence begets justifiable violence. In other words you get attacked and suffer unjustifiable violence and react violently saving yourself with justifiable violence. Jesus said turn the other cheek, thats true, but I dont believe he wanted us to lie down & die at the hands of any attacker. Theres a difference between walking away from a fight and fighting back when you need to or to prevent a bigger tragedy. Jesus also said that people should get their swords & if they didnt have one to pound their plowshares into swords. Nothing is so simple that we can say violence is never ok or killing is never ok. Being civilized means not tolerating unjustified violence or crime in our society. There is nothing civilized about turning the other cheek & letting our fellow man be victimized.
Yes. Jesus said to turn the other cheek and to love your enemy as yourself.
I think he very literally meant what he said.

I don't think we should lose track of that as an ideal, even though we fight back.

I think it is unhealthy to distort religious teachings just because we need a way to rationalize our not being strong enough to live up to them.

I do believe some people have no respect for anything but force and power. There are those in this world who are without conscience. You cannot appeal to their sense of compassion because they would really not know what you are talking about. It is like we look the same but they are very different animals.

I just think we should, before anything else, try to remediate situations, try to rehabilitate, try to reform. Our problem is that therapists and law enforcement seem not to really know who will re offend and who will not.
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