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Old 12-20-2011, 03:15 PM
 
Location: Northern Appalachia
5,182 posts, read 6,384,975 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarolinaWoman View Post
Most definitely you are making excuses ... our local YMCA must be a bit more modern than your location. We don't have that problem here at the Y. Adults and children/teens do not shower together.

We have never had the problem with coaches showering with our students here BUT if it did happen ... yes I would find it unacceptable. Why would an adult male or female want to shower with teens or children.
"Adults and children/teens do not shower together." Maybe we have a communication problem here. I'll repeate what I previously said, "But CarolinaWoman, what should I do at my local YMCA? There is one one shower room in the men's locker room, which you have to walk through to get to the pool. Based on your logic, it would be totally unacceptable for any coach to use that shower."

I have been in at least 10 different YMCA's (but not in the women's locker room). I don't remember any of them having separate shower facilities for "Adults and children/teens," but I really wouldn't have noticed. Now maybe this will help clarify for you. After speaking to my wife and daughters I found that the local YMCA has individual showers in the women's locker room. The men's locker room has one shower room. It has four shower nozzles on each side. You must walk through this room to get to the pool. This means that anyone who goes swimming or takes a shower is in this same shower room for at least a few seconds. And by the way, sometimes fathers will bring their daughters into this shower room if they are taking them swimming. I believe the men's and women's locker rooms have signs that say children older than 5 are to use the locker room of their own sex.

I guess you would have really been shocked to find out that at some YMCAs, men used to swim in the nude at least at certain times. In my junior high swimming class, swim suits were optional but the swimming teacher never went in the pool.
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Old 12-20-2011, 03:27 PM
 
Location: 39 20' 59"N / 75 30' 53"W
16,085 posts, read 23,950,540 times
Reputation: 17994
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarmaple View Post

I find it reprehensible when a false accusation is made AND I firmly believe that someone who does falsely accuse someone of assault needs to be held responsible, accountable AND charged for making a false statement. When that happens, not only is the accused made to suffer, privately and publically, but it also affects, horribly, on those who finally and appropriately make a complaint - it undermines, in my opinion, all that the victim/survivor has gone through.
Great point.

Rarely are they prosecuted. Sends the wrong message and has become to some degree, acceptable. Disturbing. Making a total mockery of the legal system. Casting the shadow of doubt and undermines the cases of true victims.
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Old 12-20-2011, 03:35 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
1,758 posts, read 1,940,332 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarmaple View Post
Amen! That should be illegal in EVERY potential rape and abuse case. It is blatantly biased. The term "accuser" is appropriate and accurate and should be used.
The term 'victim' should only be used after a plea or finding of guilt


I can understand your point; however, I do not know if I can completely agree w/this statement completely either. I am very involved in my state in advocating and helping victims of violent crime, especially in regards to domestic violence and sexual assault. I became very involved because as a victim/survivor, the judicial system did not work appropriately for me. However, just because the system failed [as it does fail many victim/survivors], it does not negate the fact that they were violently assaulted.

I also agree that too often, the victim does not come out until they learn that others too, were assaulted and/or they are afraid to do so.

I find it reprehensible when a false accusation is made AND I firmly believe that someone who does falsely accuse someone of assault needs to be held responsible, accountable AND charged for making a false statement. When that happens, not only is the accused made to suffer, privately and publically, but it also affects, horribly, on those who finally and appropriately make a complaint - it undermines, in my opinion, all that the victim/survivor has gone through.

As with any allegation, there should always been a full investigation and that, unfortunately, does not always happen - both when falsely accused and when appropriately accused.

I have learned that the press jumps at the chance to do a story - the more graphic and outrageous, the better - it has become, in my opinion, far more of sensationalism reporting than what used to be true investigative reporting, generally speaking.
But the article that is linked in the opening post uses the term "alleged victims" instead of just "victims" (except when quoting the lawyers).
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Old 12-20-2011, 07:17 PM
 
738 posts, read 970,567 times
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I have a feeling that more places will be built without showers. With phys ed more or less a thing of the past and sports practice taking place after school, I can see showers being phased out as new places are built. Might prevent some lawsuits in the future.
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Old 12-20-2011, 08:59 PM
 
18,852 posts, read 31,788,273 times
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I do hold parents somewhat accountable to what happened to their kids. I don't let my kids go every where with their coach, I am there, at the games, and many of the practices, even as a working single Mom. I did not just let my kids spend time with adults, without my supervision, or knowledge there were other kids there, like scouts. Even when my kids had piano lessons, with a male teacher, while I did not think he was a pervert, I stayed there, to be involved. I did not consider that time for me to just drop them off and go shopping or whatever.

So, when I see kids who are molested, I really wonder where the parents were...because child molesters take time to groom their victims, it is not a random encounter, it is a relationship, built on time spent to gain trust, and they keep "pushing" their victims, testing their boundaries. And that takes time...alone with the child.
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Old 12-21-2011, 01:16 AM
 
9,917 posts, read 9,321,799 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by villageidiot1 View Post

And by the way, sometimes fathers will bring their daughters into this shower room if they are taking them swimming.
So fathers bring their daughters through shower rooms with naked men of all sizes and shapes in there?? It is none of my business how a parent decides to raise their children and what they are willing to expose the child too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by villageidiot1 View Post
I guess you would have really been shocked to find out that at some YMCAs, men used to swim in the nude at least at certain times. In my junior high swimming class, swim suits were optional but the swimming teacher never went in the pool.
I'm probably old enough to be your mother and I assure you the swimming teacher, the school principal, the school board and the state education department would have heard from me if my son or daughters were swimming nude in the pool at school with a swimming teacher walking the perimeter.

A group of men that choose to swim nude is their business and no I am not shocked at that. I am speaking of adults that shower with kids/teens. I am not a prude but I did raise modest children.

We will have to agree to disagree ... we have six Y's and it is not necessary to walk through a shower room to get to the indoor or outdoor pool.

There is no earthly reason at all for adults ... be it a coach or a rank stranger to shower with children or teens.

The Penn State Sandusky nightmare made Notre Dame law professor Mark P. McKenna face his demons of abuse:

Penn State scandal: How what happened in State College forced me to confront my own abuse. - Slate Magazine

With the Penn State news others that have suffered and remained silent are coming forward.

Abuse Allegations Against Philly Sportswriter Bill Conlin Continue Societal Sea Change | ThePostGame

The Citadel ignored and did not report or respond to a sex abuse complaint in 2007. They used Citadel students as counselors at a school summer camp ... the Citadel student counselor was accused of sexual abuse by one of the campers. Ignoring the complaint the guy completed his studies, graduated from The Citadel and secured a job teaching in Charleston SC School district!!!

He is now in jail awaiting trial charged with nine counts of molesting teenage boys he coached. He has admitted to the charges and provided a list of 30 names he molested. The Citadel gave this guy a diploma and sent him out in the world ... to coach teenagers no less and do his evil deeds.

Authorities: ReVille emailed victims' families | The Post and Courier, Charleston SC - News, Sports, Entertainment

You nor I and most people don't know if John Doe is a pervert ... we may go to church with them ... or work with them ... they may be teaching our children in school or just hanging out at the YMCA.

One of the article states ... A 1998 study on child sexual abuse by Boston University Medical School, one in six boys in America will be abused by age 16. For girls, it's one in four by the age of 14.

Molestation of a child or teen is not something a parent can just kiss and make better or put a band-aid on it ... the child/teen may keep it to themselves and suffer mentally for years. As parents we are the keepers, protectors and responsible for that life we brought into this world.

And ... yes I still find it unacceptable.
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Old 12-21-2011, 02:05 AM
 
Location: 39 20' 59"N / 75 30' 53"W
16,085 posts, read 23,950,540 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njsocks View Post
DJacques? Are you kidding me? It is unnacceptable no matter how you cut it! The guy has admitted to having sexual attraction to boys!~ Disgusting!
Unfortunately hes not. His views on pedophilia are scary.
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Old 12-21-2011, 07:09 AM
 
Location: Northern Appalachia
5,182 posts, read 6,384,975 times
Reputation: 6080
Default Primer: How to recognize the serial child molester

Primer: How to recognize the serial child molester

Most but not all of this appears to describe Sandusky. His success at coaching football obviously allowed his behavior to go on as long as it did.
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Old 12-21-2011, 07:21 AM
 
10,452 posts, read 10,654,792 times
Reputation: 12537
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasper12 View Post
I do hold parents somewhat accountable to what happened to their kids. I don't let my kids go every where with their coach, I am there, at the games, and many of the practices, even as a working single Mom. I did not just let my kids spend time with adults, without my supervision, or knowledge there were other kids there, like scouts. Even when my kids had piano lessons, with a male teacher, while I did not think he was a pervert, I stayed there, to be involved. I did not consider that time for me to just drop them off and go shopping or whatever.

So, when I see kids who are molested, I really wonder where the parents were...because child molesters take time to groom their victims, it is not a random encounter, it is a relationship, built on time spent to gain trust, and they keep "pushing" their victims, testing their boundaries. And that takes time...alone with the child.
Most parents do this already. I'm sure there are a few adults that you do trust to take care of your kids. Maybe your sister or your own parents or something--who knows. And I'm sure, like most parents, you've hired a babysitter--maybe a trusted friend--at least a few times. Most abuse doesn't happen when children are left unsupervised. Most of it happens when they are supervised by adults the parent already trusts. A lot of it also happens at schools, where parents can't supervise their kids, because teachers are expected and trusted to supervise them in loco parentis. As a parent you can only do so much. A lot of abuse happens in people's homes and schools, and by people both the victim and victim's parent knows--in other words, situations most parents would deem to be "safe".

My parents trusted my babysitter to babysit me and didn't suspect her cause she was a woman. Most parents hire a babysitter specifically because they can't be at home, so it's common for parents not to be home with the babysitter--since that's the whole point of a babysitter. My parents had no choice but to trust my teachers, and some of them ended up being abusive. My friend's mother trusted her own father to babysit her child, which seems reasonable--right? Who would have known that her own father, my friend's own grandfather, would rape her on a regular basis? Most of the time this kind of stuff happens with people that parents already trust, which is how it is able to happen. It's able to happen because trust allows these situations to arise, and trust is what often leads parents to doubt that someone they love and trust could do something so awful to their children.

I don't blame parents most of the time, because most of the time they are making judgments that are perfectly reasonable. It's none other than the perpetrators themselves that are at fault for breaking that trust and for hurting another human being on the most profound level possible. Even the best parents are not God and cannot know all of what is happening, and perpetrators are excellent at blackmailing children into silence. Even children with the most loving and caring parents in the world can end up in situations where they're sexually abused.
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Old 12-21-2011, 09:30 AM
 
Location: Michigan
12,715 posts, read 11,630,874 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magritte25 View Post
Really?
Yes, really. And I'm not that old.
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